Discussion
9 min
Richard goes on to mention the practice of borrowing money to buy equities (abroad). The yen carry trade has been mentioned reasonably frequently of late. It doesn’t seem like this practice makes any sense in terms of a macro economic policy. Money is being created for the sole purpose of speculating abroad. There’s no economic activity generated inside the nation where the loan is taken out.
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @economics_that_works
Indeed; this is what happens when financial services are treated as an 'industry' in themselves rather than being seen merely as a service sector to facilitate 'real' industry & services businesses....
@ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
Well, right because if I take out a loan to buy a new espresso machine, say if own coffee shop, then the thing I purchased in this particular case partially covers the loan taken out. Added this extremely simple case immediately goes Into a revenue selling cup of coffee.
For carry trades in particular, where is the tangible economic commercial value in the nation of loan origin? For that nation wears “the profit in it”? Why take on the risk?
@ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
And by this, I mean at the government level as a matter of financial risk to the nation of origin. What’s the benefit to the nation of origin systemically and what’s the risk systemically?
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @economics_that_works
What the financiers will tell you is such trades support (enhance) the liquidity of foreign exchange markets & by doing so offer some value to the real economy... which is a sense *is* true, but such speculative financial instruments & practices have grown out of all proportion to their practical utility - as I have said before, in the end its the tail wagging the dog
@ChrisMayLA6 @GhostOnTheHalfShell @economics_that_works
a system is what a system does, especially if it does or did that consistently since forever and has never done it in any other way one might naively expect
one can also summarize it as money printers working for the billionaire class and always have, at least since 1971, but technically aince forever, because any other limitation that existed was just on paper - some kind of self imposed limits that go out the window when inconvenient
@serapath @GhostOnTheHalfShell @economics_that_works
The innovation of paper money lies behind much of the development of then modern world.... and while yes it has always been to the advantage of the rich, we should also accept that if we think the human race has made progress since the C14/15th centuries then some of that general progress has been facilitated by an economic expansion built on the foundations of paper money (and therefore credit creation).... just sayin'
@ChrisMayLA6 @GhostOnTheHalfShell @economics_that_works
while it is true that humanity made technological progress, there is a lack of "control group" here.
The technology of paper money and its theory does not include the central point of failure by having the rich abuse it - that fact was kinda ignored for lack of better alternatives and we all hoped for the best, but these days of the rich not abusing it are over and actually never existed, we just were powerless to do anything about it
@ChrisMayLA6 @serapath @economics_that_works
Economic crisis favors the wealthy usually. The payment system doesn’t change that
The principal issue is always political power. It doesn’t really matter what the payment system is, whether a measure of gold dust, pieces of paper with a number written on them or held in a ledger either on paper or in a database.
The value of the currency is its legal standing as payment.
Knapp invented a lot of words; what he says is valuable
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
hmm... i dont agree. we have power politics because everyone wants to capture the money printer for their own goals. take it away and politics change radically.
the "payment system" very much decides who suffers in economic crisis, because the rich get bailed out, always, one way or another ...and the losses are socialized, always ... the method by which its done is the printing press
@serapath @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
From my perspective from an anthropological perspective, I have a very different view on things. Technology is never a solution to politics, even though the guys in Silicon Valley believe that technology is the alternative to politics.
They believe it because they know they control it.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
i guess we jave a very different understanding of "technology" ...sid meiers civilization comes to mind. the wheel is a technology. the pencil is a technology, the hammer or the printing press are technologies.
sure, humans are humans, but the past of peast resistance or effort gets changed via technology.
We take democracy for granted, but without paper ballots, the alphabet, numbers, ... as technology, we wouldnt have it.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
sure social problems, human needs or wishes/dreams dont get created by technology, but a widely deployed technology can enable something that was formerly a theoretical ideal solution that just wasnt feasible.
...and because we dont built tech that enables us to have communities and ppl in charge, silicon valley tech billionaires build their tech that tips path of least effort or resistance in their favour so they control things more
@serapath @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
You would benefit from a lot of cultural anthropology. It would definitely warp your brain.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
feel free to expose me to it instead of defering to something nebolous as if i wasnt familiar with a lot already 🤷♀️
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works lets add, i am not claiming the ideal of bitcoin alone can change things, no the ppl have to organize independently from billionaires.
we have the knowledge and the means to do it and adopting e.g. bitcoins, billionaires also have no way to print their way out of this, BUT ...if we adopt money billionaires cant print, we still need to build alternative open source based supply chains too and we can 🙂 ...and there is a lot of anthropology
@serapath @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
If you actually want some flavor of what cultural anthropology can do there’s a YouTube channel and also a podcast called. What is politics
You’ll know it because it has an Alfred E. Neuman face associated with it, and the creator has a taste for the Eurythmics.
He has a delightful series on politics. Highly recommended and you can plug in his podcast or watch them on or YouTube your choice
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
found the channel and it all looks like entertaining titles and probably fun to listen to, but none of the topics seem like super novel as if i werent familiar with them.
i'm not saying it will be trivia or it would just repeat whats well known already, but if you can recommend some of those videos moght be good.
i will try with "Ending the forever housing crisis" (no high expectations, but lets see)
@serapath @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
You might want to start with Wurbs. Or any of the subjects having to do with the definitions of left and right. They are likely to be substantially different from most things you hear.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
just did and had to giggle on this one.
he also said: leftists have a tendency to become more elitists once established... oh maybe because bribes?
The moment the left start sucessfully organizing the billionaires realise it quickly and fight it with money (they can print - so everyone but them bears the costs) - oh really? 😁
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
so am half way in and yes, he proposes a cooperative to own and manage the house, thus tenants are also cooperative members and thus their landlords. ...this model and the various flavours are great and i am all for it. in fact i have many friends who have lived and are living in that kind of arrangement. i have lived like that myself for some time.
This is imho what i meant and understood by ppl have to organize and take ownership too
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
...but, WHY isnt that the vast majority of how things work today already? why do ppl live as tenants and pay fortunes and face "oppressive landlords" ... i do think the reason is some folks have ENDLESS money and they want to secure their wealth and "store" it somewhere because they know cash wont hold value, so they put enormous buying pressure on everything, especially housing and where money is to be made, at least those who dont....
@serapath @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
Owning a house has long been advertised as a means to build and store wealth. Particularly since the end of World War II. The nature of the housing market itself, and how it is financed is another interesting corner of economic history.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
its simple.
folks have money and housing is where they store it. They buy it next to others to escape cash... because that devalues via inflation.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
...care and want to earn some money too in this rough unfair world we are living in, will find a way to provide houses to those with the bjying power, who might very well be folks with good values who vote left and yadda yadda, but the majority of house prices and almost angthing these days is because pl try to store their wealth somewhere and in return making it unaffordable for the majority of ppl who try to get by.
...why is that?
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
...because money printer.
the billionaire class prints ever more money and puts it into their nonsense ideas that justify the printing formally and then hire people. also those with good proper leftist values to work for that money, but then the products/services are not getting bought, but instead those now rich folks (because thats how those employees are close to the money printer) want to save/invest/buy houses... because what else?
@serapath @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
The point where I will disagree with you, is that people will try to store or accumulate or hoard wealth. Money is a means. Before money there were other ways to accumulate wealth.
His critique of Dawn Of Everything provides the basis to understand this from historical archaeological and anthropological lens. Do you wanna go over his older videos on this topic. He has a more recent four part series, but its focus is different.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
money is a means is such an economist thing to say. ...lol, not sure what that is supposed to say.. is it meant as it should only be a means bad sadly isnt?
money is definitely for losing wealth, hence so many problems 🙂
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
Then you are very trqpped in your bubble imho.
Entire industries exist for nothing else than to keep money safe from devaluatiin and actually invest it including fleeing from taxes, but not keeping your wealth in cash or currency is economics 101 and everyone with wealth, even just medium to top earning employees do it routinely.
The wealthy chinese or russians or arabs do it too - internationally. its the ultimate reason why it happens
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
So the guy in the video says the solution to get coop housing started everywhere at massive scale is the govenrment pays for it and get paid back later over time.
He then said in the 1980s and before the government had momey for infrastructure and awesome stuff, but now not anymore...
he also recommends "garrys economics" a lot, but while the guy sees the problem, his "tax the rich" solution is naive and wont fix it when they can print
@serapath @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
I think like a lot of people Gary address is a very important theme which is wealth consolidation. And largely co-op housing has approving track record providing stable low cost housing.. basically any kind of non-market housing has a very good record of this.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
Essentially, he goes on to recommend the government should be able to print money and buy housing directly and then give it to the coop members to run it and then destroy that printed money once the coop members paid it back over time in installlments.
this hopefully will only have coops run by members who will be able to eventually pay it back and of course not by rich folks who will create coops to infiltrate this process somehow
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
the question would be - why isnt it happening now even though governments could in the past and it sounds like a good idea?
maybe because the rich having a money printer already capture all politics and proposals and distort them until it serves them?
the main thing he says is when zooming out and i agree with it is: ppl have to organize, take on ownership and consciously work with others - regardless of what industry/business. YES 🙂
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
...but that wont be enough, because billionaires can attack economically in all kinds of ways and undermine the ppl trying to organize.
just like you can pay for and deploy tactics to bust unions you can so so by disrupting ppl organizing - even if it costs you a fortune - as long as you have a money printer, everyone else pays for your moves via inflation, not you, so billionaire scant go bust and attack forever
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
sorry for this long thread, but trying to respond to one video i picked from your recommendation.
towards the end he says: "phase out rental housing", but that is how i live and want to live. i am a perpetual nomad living minimally above the povert line and being able to change houses and travel is also quality of life rather than being locked in a small apartment for life.
the thing is, rent doesnt have to be expensive
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
why should everyone be forced ro own a house and make that their part time or full time business? there are many ways how people can earn income and the ways in which ppl so it have only gotten more diverse over time.
its also not that housing is the only thing that becomes unafordable - its many things because its a systemic problem, so lets just expand the solution of ppl organizing to everything maybe and then use division of labour?
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
anywau, checked also a few other videos, but he seems stuck in that frame that its normal that wealthy folks get automatically more wealthy over time because their wealth attracts more wealth... and thus the government has to counter balance it (which it mysteriously never does) .. the whole premise is unquestioned, e.g. why is it that "enormous wealth makes you richer over time" ... its because of money printing 🙂. stop it ends the rich
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
mainly because enormous wealth, especially in means of production, causes enormous costs and they suck your wealth dry fast unless you habe revenue ... billionaires dont, so instead they print money and global debt expands ..
...if they cant get that anymore they all go bankrupt insanely fast ...but until the ppl organize to make supply chains for everything, its not feasible and once we do, billionaires will print komey to attack or buy
@serapath @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
I’m gonna pick on you because I think you have too much of a money fetish. 
one real reality, we are all living with is the global economy has largely exhausted the kinds of mineral inputs that needs to function. Conventional oil, production peak in 2005. Nonconventional sources are basically running out quickly, but the other mineral inputs needed are largely done.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
i dont have a money fetish - its just the rules of the game and ignoring it cant fix the problem.
in this regard, sovient union and capitalist america are the same thing, not different systems, even china.. same shit. They have different stories ansld vibes, because their elites have different fetishes and flavours and branding ...just like in wrestling good and bad guys have different brandings, nut its the same system. central banking
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
the same banks finance both sides of wars, even world wars...
and its not different this time around.
its the rich printing money to fight their wars and the poor going to war if it comes to it.
its billionaires printing money and paying us with it to tell us what to do.
its not left vs right.
its authoritarian elitists vs egalitarian anti-authoritarians
THATs the real divide.
central banking system is as authoritarian as it gets
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
i watched this and i agree with the problem he describes anout "the left" and how they turn right sometimes or more elitist when they come in touch with power.
i get the feeling he just ascribes it to how ppl are or that it is because its so nice around power... but the mechanics are simple. its called bribing and its done woth printed money.
join us and you benefit from wealth 🙂
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @ChrisMayLA6 @economics_that_works
HERE he says it after telling what was good.
He says: "But then, in the 1970s, ....."
Its August 15th 1971 - the the only shock it needed, but otherwise accurate observation.
