Discussion
The issue I have with EVs and renewables is not that they aren’t a much less worse way to carry on with what we have been doing. They very probably are a lot less worse. (It’s early days and unintended consequences are murky af.)
The issue is that the *expectation* is that we will carry on being as mobile and as power-hungry as we have been. And the signs are very strong that that can’t work.
As tactics they look substantially more positive than fossils, but the *strategy* seems undeliverable
@urlyman despite being the most visible, our petrol car is our lowest carbon impact. Start with looking at the bigger problems.
@theolodian nope. We don’t have time for such an attitude. It’s an everything predicament https://mastodon.social/@urlyman/112095379011791299
@urlyman what am I actually supposed to do about it?
@urlyman I’ve done a lot. The forest and I stand apart.
@theolodian That’s cool. My “nope” was not an attack on you. I don’t know you nor your circumstances.
I’m just so very tired at our collective lack of care and imagination. And especially tired of appeals to “we should do x first” or “y is a much bigger problem than x”
@urlyman fair. My frustration is people with EVs who go on fly-cruises. People latch onto easy ways to feel guilt-free, whilst not understanding the scale of the problem.
Also, no level of individual action will fix it. It has to be society-wide, including things that individuals have no direct influence over. The good news is that progress is finally being made.
@urlyman nonetheless, if anyone does come up with new opportunities for me to have an impact then I’m all ears. 👍
Electric cars seem the have brought the same mindset gas cars have of always needing bigger and newer. Most people would seriously do fine with a 2014 leaf (and you can still 3rd party upgrade them). But people seem to have this "need more" mindset. Like they will NEVER use 400 miles of range, 8 seats, 40000 lumen headlights, full charging in 15 minutes, and full self driving for anything at all, but they like having the OPTION to. It's like Stan from American dad with his SUV.
@urlyman I think the root of the problem is even dumber: aesthetics.
Like, at this point, robots could be moving goods everywhere, if we were not completely hung up on the physical form of the automobile.
Like, if we established robot-only lanes and corridors, they could get around safely, much as cars having to stay in the streets works. But those lanes and corridors don't have to be car-sized, or on the ground.
Cars and trucks are approximately as big as they are, to accomodate both a human driver and a large ICE motivator. A robot that carries letters could be much smaller, and much faster, and in a rationally designed underground tunnel system, robots of all sizes could move all manner of things, the benefit being less and less need for people to jump in their automobile to go deliver a piece of paper, or pick one up, or do any number of tasks for which our first instinct is to reach for the keys.
NYC had a pneumatic tube system, which yes, ultimately was scrapped because it would get jammed up a lot. But it worked well enough, compared to whatever else was available, that New York City built a whole infrastructure for it. If we replaced inert capsules and compressed air with battery-powered autonomous capsules that can navigate huge runs of underground pipe, the pipes and tunnels are probably there already in a lot of cities, abandoned by the old morlocks.
The biggest problem is a failure of imagination, and the mental torpor of calcified minds. None of the above is expensive for a nation, and if we pooled our fucking tax money we could start implementing it today.
@jpaskaruk nice thoughts. Imagination and courage needed
@urlyman The e-bikes seem to be much better solution, then electric cars.
They are marketed mostly as recreational and sports equipment, but actually: micromobility solves high percentage of use cases for individual mobility.
Maybe what we need is 100% replacement, but just replacement that works in typical weather, on a typical distance, with typical amount of baggage (eg. small backpack). And we need them to be somewhat clean amd shiny, to show some limited social status (because this is how things work, unfortunately).
I would think about design e-bikes just like design glasses. It may work, actually. It probably already works in many European towns (I am riding just repurposed electric MTB ;-)
We need to start thinking of bikes and e-bikes like the Dutch and the Danish: they are *normal* ways to get around.
Not a toy, not a way to fill your strava file.
Also not "because you can't afford a car".
A bona fide transportation mode.
And we need to convince mayors, councils, and city engineers that enough of the residents think so.
@urlyman Although for buses, lorries and multi use vehicles (like our home visit cars in out of hours), it makes sense. Also we still have a lot of diesel trains which need changed to electric, but that requires new infrastructure on large swathes of track.
@nusher yes, within our current adjacent possibles I’m not arguing against cleaner techs, but I am arguing like hell against the *absence* of the realisation that they aren’t remotely enough
@urlyman I completely agree with you. On the other hand, I wonder why we shouldn’t make the most of the various options available during this transitional period?
Example: Until the mayor finally restores the old regional public transport, I could drive an EV instead of a fossile-driven car. In rural areas, people would remain mobile, particularly those with disabilities. And they’d still have the energy to keep fighting the mayor for years to come.
Many local changes will come but take time.
@NatureMC we should. No point in wasting good infrastructure already built.
We’ll get overtaken by events and then we’ll adjust more sharply despite all the earlier protestations of “oh no I couldn’t possibly contemplate that”
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