Discussion
Nattering with @Jaimieserotica about office dress, I realise that I don't recall the last time I saw someone wearing a suit, let alone a tie.
Most people with whom I work tend to wear either t-shirts or polo shirts, or something similarly "casual".
In an office setting, jeans, a casual dress, or a skirt, but rarely shorts.
Perhaps 1 in 10 is someone in a collared shirt.
@neil @Jaimieserotica At my office the dress code is shirt and tie for the men from roughly October to May. During the warmer months it’s much more relaxed and I wear polo shirts (or a t-shirt if I’m going to be lifting and moving stuff). A lot of guys wear shorts, although that’s officially frowned upon.
This year one guy got promoted to assistant manager, and he showed up at the all staff meeting in a suit and tie, dress shoes polished and glowing— while the rest of us were in polo shirts and shorts.
And I just thought, Dude. Comme le fuque down ..,
@neil When I hear people drifting into casual racism, I have taken to throwng in some variant of "yeah, white men in suits, we all know about _them_". Funny, everyone remembers a time a white man in a suit screwed them over.
@neil
Just jumping in before the first appointment of the day!
'Suit' is a much more flexible concept for a woman and, accordingly, can be made more comfortable according to the weather. Normally it's a black or navy shift dress with a jacket over the top. In cold weather, I can wear a trouser suit, which has the added bonus of making my arse look great 🤭. In hot weather, I have some linen dresses I can throw a blazer over.
It's you guys I feel sorry for... Ties, ughhhh.
@Jaimieserotica Curiously, the effect of clothing on my backside has not been a particular factor in my wardrobe choices...
@neil @Jaimieserotica late 90s, persuaded the bosses that my team (IT folk who didn't work on the main office level) needed casual clothes because we had to crawl under dusty desks a lot. Which wasn't true, but it worked, and apart from a brief period in 2000, that was the end of ties at work for me.
2014 I was one of a queue of scruffy software types boarding a flight to OSCON in Portland and was asked 'business or pleasure' by border control. I said business, because I was going to our office there. They asked me to step aside, then strip searched me down to my undercrackers. After I got dressed again, the guard pointed at my daybag (a couple of t shirts and jeans) "If you are travelling on business, where is your suit?". I just burst out laughing.
@neil @Jaimieserotica
IME, the death of the tie as office wear commuted out of London...
It reached York a couple of years before Bristol. Edinburgh and Aberdeen took even longer
@neil @Jaimieserotica I just attended a seminar presented by our condo association's property manager. I wore shorts, an aloha shirt, and shoes.
The only people wearing suits were staffers working for the property management firm.
The only people wearing ties were the three attorneys that were presenting talks on condo law.
So glad to be retired!
@neil "Condos" (condominiums) are creatures of law just as much as corporations and Home Owners Associations.
I don't know if the UK has such things?
Therefore they are afflicted with laws.
Private homes may also be afflicted with laws, but a LOT FEWER OF THEM!
I don't think that we have condos (at least, I have not heard of them here).
And I have never heard of a home owners' association here. The first I heard of it as a thing at all was in the fediverse, and it sounds very weird to me.
We have "corporations", but whether they are quite the same thing, I have no idea!
@neil @Jaimieserotica I work with a guy who always turns up in shirt, trousers, tie, tie clip, etc.
Which is weird enough anyway, but then to see him after our team go-karting stripping out of a race suit still wearing it all, including the tie clip, made it even weirder.
He apparently just prefers the look to the point that he's happy to be the only person I've ever seen working here who does it. Which is fair. But still weird.
@neil @Jaimieserotica I worked for a big 10 (so not a big 4 😅) and we had to wear ties. Not a full suit.
When the years went by we tend to have a few ties in the office we used for meetings. Later on even no more ties.
Now, self employed accountant: polo, casualier dress shirt with jeans or shorts (summer)
Sneakers or something birckenstock-like in summer.
@neil @Jaimieserotica I would probably kill to get out of having to wear a suit daily for work
costs of having a suit aside, they're just deeply unpleasant to wear all day
To each, their own, obviously.
I know that some people like to dress up/differently for work, or to put on make up, or whatever.
Some are subject to a more rigid work wear / uniform policy.
Different things for different people.
If I needed to wear a collared shirt for a meeting, I'd need to go out and buy one specifically...
It is interesting to contemplate what amounts to "professionalism".
When I work with people, I will do my best to solve their problem with skill, expertise, and experience. I like to get results.
But I will also (try to) be fun and enjoyable to work with, kind and caring, interested and personable.
If a situation demanded that I was dressed in a particular way, then I am not going to rebel without cause, but nor will I be dressed up for the sake of it.
@neil
Interesting that a thread on "professionalism" is primarily about attire. When I complain about the legal profession being de-professionalised & turned into a consumer service, clothing never even enters the discussion. Possibly the difference of "professionalism" as seen ftom the inside & the outside.
> Interesting that a thread on "professionalism" is primarily about attire
This thread was mainly about office attire, per the first post! Professionalism was an aspect of this, but it was not a thread about professionalism itself.
@neil I've been fortunate to spend my career in engineering control rooms where jeans and a t-shirt is fine.
Some managers in shirts; saying they like to look a bit smarter befitting their responsible role. This isn't an enforced rule so it's interesting they feel this way, it harks back to social norms of the older generations.
Some prefer shirts 'cos they don't like the feel of our lanyards on their necks! A true engineering solution.
Shorts remain a bit too far, but I'm working on it.
@neil It’s the post-covid effect. A couple of years working from home has relaxed dress codes. Some financial companies are still up themselves (and some consultancies perhaps?), but generally things are much more relaxed.
Disclaimer: I’m a software developer at heart (and an aging rocker). Most folks I work with are devs too, so T-shirt and jeans is de rigour, and my usual default both in and out of work
@neil That said, I am currently working with (“for” ☹️ as an employee because it’s better terms than inside IR35) a large pension fund management org, and I got pulled aside for wearing jeans (bold shirts were fine 🤷♂️).
I did point out their “dress for your day” policy, but a senior manager insisted he could override it.
Apparently I wasn’t the only one peeved, and several weeks later they had to eat their words and relaunch “dress for your day” policy 😁
We are not post-covid yet :)
But that aside, for me, this started long before the pandemic began - 2010ish onwards, I think.
@neil but there always is the “better overdressed than underdressed”
Not undressed, damn you autocorrect
That is certainly a perspective that I have heard. And I am sure that some people are more judgmental about clothing than others.
I remember hearing the same thing about beards, and tattoos, and how neither was appropriate in a work environment. Daft, IMHO.
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