Discussion
vibe coding has become such a popular thing, even among programmers, because most people who write software never actually learned how to _engineer_ software
and to be fair, no one really knows how to do that. the skills and techniques were never really developed anywhere
there are a few places where the practices get closer to what one might call engineering, but even then it's rather unlike most engineering
NASA's methodology, for instance, is not comparable to any other form of engineering
there's a whole host of reasons for this absence in software, but one recent contributing factor in the rise of vibe coding, I believe, is the obsession with ~agile~
which is both widely misunderstood, widely misused, and widely pushed in industry
agile fits VERY WELL with vibe coding. they're made for each other. just crank stuff out in response to customer desires, don't worry about code quality, all that matters is what the customer's saying in feedback. if they cant see a problem, there is no problem
@beka_valentine Agile likes Vibe Coding? not so much, if agile means maintainable and comprehensible, reviewed for sanity and refactored to reduce complicated code.
tbf some of Agile(TM) repeatedly ships the prototype, but that's eventually self-limiting.
But given a high pressure hose extruding code, it helps to have a workflow that keeps it within bounds by generating in small slices with strong static analysis, careful review, and a suite of tests of correct and consistent behavior. Engineering sanity checks which we need now more than pre-LLM.
a lot of folx will point to tests as an example of engineering but anyone who knows anything about actual engineering knows that tests are quality control, as a practice of manufacturing, not engineering
engineering happens long before you test
imagine trying to design a mechanism, or a circuit, or a bridge and doing it by hunch and by test and nothing else
no calculations, no specifications, just make some hunch of a design, test it, then iterate
that's what people did before engineering developed historically
you dont know what works, you don't know why it works, you have a bunch of rules of thumb but no principles to guy your decisions, and no techniques to deploy on paper to arrive at conclusions
you make guesses and you check them
you may make those guesses based on years and years of experience, but there is little explicit knowledge that goes into design choices
engineers, by contrast, are highly skilled professionals who make active use of explicit knowledge backed by decades and centuries of science
this is not to insult programmers!
this is just to be honest and clear about the nature of professional programming
we are glorified hobbyists at best. we're hobbyists struggling with the fact that we are given responsibilities that we lack the skills for
and its not our fault, because there is no education you can get anywhere that will teach you how to do real engineering
the absolute closest you will ever get in the standard academic CS track is doing complexity analysis, which is then rarely if ever used
even the idea of unit testing code as we do today is quite new, since about 2010 maybe a little earlier
it used to be that programmers didn't even really write the tests themselves, they left that to QA teams. this was an entire revolution in the software world!
there's entire episodes of coding podcasts like Greater Than Code that talk about the history of the change, and how radically different things are now compared to just a short time ago!
we're moving kind of in the right direction maybe, MAYBE, but its not engineering YET
not being engineering is not some insult, but a lot of programmers like to elevate themselves and stroke their egos. calling yourself a Software Engineer makes you feel good and smart
but real engineers would be horrified by the suggestion of Vibe Engineering a bridge or engine
its also important to understand that im not saying that we need actual engineering levels of work for software
that's a separate thing, and i think is very debatable!
i think for a lot of things, you just dont need it, its fine to just be a programmer not an engineer
but if we DO want to ACTUALLY have a discipline of Software Engineering, then there's a lot of work that has to happen to develop the techniques and tools
and i think that the main reason Vibe Coding is such a hot thing right now among professional coders, aside from like, you know, corporate mandates, is that we never actually developed real Software Engineering, and so the weight of not knowing what you're doing is heavy
also i should point out that real engineering has moved a loooot of stuff into software in a way that programming just hasn't ever done
a lot of the design work of engineers used to involve heavy mathematics, lots of reference material, etc. which now resides in software
so instead of analyzing the stress and strain on some structural member by hand, you can throw it into some finite element analysis program or whatever
instead of having to look up youngs modulus for Monel K-500, you just select Monel K-500 from a dropdown menu
all of that work is part of the _design_ process, not the building process
but if you think about what software is like, the DESIGN process is a text file with some ideas, or a github issue for a feature request
its very rare to spend a lot of time on designing a solution to a problem, before going and building it. and the software tools you use to build software solutions are almost always minor conveniences like good code editors, or debugging tools
some of this makes sense, because software is software, so what does it mean to simulate your software designs before you build the software? just write some code then run it, no simulations needed
but its important to not get confused about the roles that software is playing
the software tools used by an engineer are have a dramatic impact on what they can achieve, by encoding the work that they would have otherwise done by hand
the software tools used by programmers is of marginal value beyond the convenience and feel of the act of programming
and what we see with programmers who use Vibe Coding tools is that a non-trivial amount of their love for them comes from the fact that they can ad hoc supplement the act of editing/writing code
they can fill gaps in the way that some engineers tools do
you don't have to go search around for a specific algorithm anymore, or for a library that implements it, you can just get the AI to magic it up
5 or 10 years ago, the software engineer couldn't easily do the equivalent thing of looking up young's modulus for monel k-500
engineers have things like "ASM Handbook, Volume 1: Properties and Selection: Irons, Steels, and High-Performance Alloys"
there is no ACM Handbook, Volume 1: Properties and Selection: Sorting Algorithms
oh there are books where you can look up sorting algorithms, don't get me wrong. Knuth's books come close!
but when was the last time you needed to look up anything in those books?
engineers prior to computerized engineering were looking these things up constantly
and Knuth is one guy, writing his books. the ACM certainly has some books, but there's nothing comparable
the best test right now of whether or not self-described Software Engineers are really engineers is whether or not they'd be willing to be held criminally liable for bugs that cause informational, financial, or physical harm to people
few would say yes
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