Discussion
Yo, I'm heading up a brand-new community project. 👥
We write code by hand. 🤚🏽⌨️
It's a growing opt-in directory of software developers who write code by hand. When you hear someone tell you “nobody does that” you can point to this and say “well these folks do.”
If you're #ProCraft and care about the future of handcrafted software, please add yourself to the list! I'd love to see this grow to 100s of signatories (I know y'all are out there!) and really send a message.
@jaredwhite i really like this idea. Since I only code on my day time job, i have nothing to show for "proving" that i only do code by hand (i don't have the energy / resources to do coding outside of work so there is not really anything from me available outside of that company). Maybe in the future i will have the energy to do something open source and then verify myself but in the nearest future i don't see that.
@jaredwhite Sounds good.
Are you ever planning to move from developing code to developing people?
Another way to say it: Pioneering people using people (not just tech)
See my profile also for a bit moer but above is at the head of developing people and real at some point, not just tech heavy tree of development.
Thanks for anything on that.
@collective_truth Yep, been doing that for a long time now:
@jaredwhite OK tell me more! I'm interested (without deep links or other external sites I need to sign in / up to - for now)
@jaredwhite Cool initiative. 👍 I've also posted it on Bluesky, mentioning your account there. Good luck!
@jaredwhite I'm not totally an AI guy but I have to ask: "do you guys still drive to the office in your horse drawn carts"? RESIST! RESIST!
@Waldorf I mean, that would be pretty fun.
I wrote my own blogging software by hand* (still a work in progress though). And one or two little things. Does that count?
*Technically, typed, text editor. I know someone will want to question the 'by hand' thing.
@jaredwhite Adding myself tomorrow if I get the time! Already joined Handmade Network this month — feels good to finally see some resistance coming up! Thank you :)
@jaredwhite I have a project I've been working on for a while but it's not remotely ready to show off. Can I add my name anyway?
@AVincentInSpace I mean…the lines are fuzzy and that's fine, but ideally we're trying to scope this to "I have something out in the wild other people can use/are using"
Best of luck on your project!
@jaredwhite JetBrains Mono 😍
@jaredwhite do you also have a directory for people who document code by hand? because I would join that in a heartbeat
@WizardOfDocs I mean, documentation is an important part of programming, so you're welcome to join the list if you like!
@jaredwhite 🦌 i have seen many lists like these come and go. when someone comes to you with demands that a name, or a group of names, be stricken from this list as punishment for unrelated actions - how will you respond?
@snailerotica I'm not sure what you mean. Everyone on the list has opted-in personally. I'm not in charge of removing anyone, they would have to submit a new PR to remove themselves.
@jaredwhite 🦌 i refer to the practice of social ostracization, of demanding that one's enemies be removed from the list.
@snailerotica well anyone can demand anything. 🤷♂️
All I can say is, as a maintainer, I'm merging PRs from people who opt-in themselves. If someone on the list wants to be removed, they can similarly file a PR to delete themselves and I'll merge that too.
*Maybe* I would consider taking unilateral action if someone on the list was charged with a crime or something? Dunno. Would have to consider that on a case-by-case basis I guess.
@jaredwhite I'd love to add my name to the list but I don't really have anything "in production" atm (I assume WIP hobby projects with a user base of 1 don't count 🙃).
I'll have to think on this, but my first instinct is to want a community that merely pledges " HERE we write code by hand" rather than worrying what people do elsewhere. It's still valuing the craft and it still says yes people do that. But, among other things, it loses the ability to learn from other communities.
I get the desire for purity, but if that's what's sought (and maybe it's worth being clear on this? It reads slightly ambiguous to me), it places a bet that can backfire with people you care about being forced to leave the comunity to eat, rather than able to still stay and contribute. That can also read coercive/cultish. And it also robs that community of MANY potential part time supporters who want, or more likely need, to straddle two worlds. I think it was Kant who said "ought implies can".
@kentpitman @salixsericea I would gently suggest you have it completely backwards: the AI bros are the cult. We're simply taking a stand that we're not interested in playing their weird game and will continue to design & build software as software has been designed & built.
There are quite a few people here I've talked to personally and many folks already accept the cognitive distance they need to use LLMs at $DAYJOB because it's been forced on them. Such is the present moment, and it sucks.
I think this detail is important to clarify so that people are not left to guess about whether they are "cheating".
If you are OK with people using "AI"/LLMs in their day job, I think it's important to say so expressly, that people are signing onto a project, not a code of personal ethics.
If you are not OK with that, you need to day that, too.
I recommend the path that welcomes support but does not force people to pledge what they do elsewhere. That will not only get you a bigger community but a more welcoming one, one that people can try out more freely, one that is open to nuanced discussion proper to navigating an overconstrained world.
@kentpitman @salixsericea I do want people to wonder if they're cheating. And this *is* a sort of code of ethics.
And no, I'm not "OK" with people using LLMs at their day job. People themselves are not OK with their using LLMs at their day job. They do it because they're *forced* to by late-stage capitalism, not because they like the idea.
That's the whole point of this.
@jaredwhite I love this idea but it would be very helpful if they could list the projects they work on, preferably with links. Otherwise I don't know which projects to support without doing a lot of research.
@jaredwhite I assume you write hexagonal, FCIS architecture, lifting your partial applications into monads and encode validity into type boundaries to minimaze imperative code boilerplate, yes?
@Llevickas no monads were harmed in the making of this website!
@jaredwhite might as well use an LLM then haha
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