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@tinker It drives me absolutely crazy that I now have to have a %&#ing conversation with a machine over and over until it "understands" what I want (or I give up) instead of using the %&#ing machine language I learned so I could specify what I want with exact precision in one go.

@tinker you can do some part of vibe-security research by replacing the fuzzer tool with an AI tool which may produce more targeted random data.

@tinker I miss when search worked

@tinker amazing post. Yessss.

@tinker I'm conflicted about your description there. As an #actuallyautistic person, I totally agree with you and I have the very same feelings about AI and "natural language" models.

However, with lots of #actuallyautistic social contacts and also having been in various self-help groups, I have met a number of violently pro-AI folks who are on the spectrum and don't share my (or your) disagreement about the use of AI as a replacement for actual precise communication with the machine.

So it doesn't seem that being autistic is a key factor in how much you like or dislike the "natural" language that LLMs force on us.

@tinker Isn't there a way to get it back? I low key keep waiting for some organization to make a search engine that basically does what Google originally did and blow all the LLM engines out of the water

@tinker
I don't think I'm neurodivergent, don't know for sure, fairly mildly if I am, but I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate what AI has done to search. It's worse than the pre-Google days when you needed to use search aggregators. And now AI has broken Google. It's even broken Duck Duck Go.

After reading some of the replies to the OP (and you should read them, too. It's a good discussion) - I need to clarify.

I'm using neurotypical / neurodivergent (autistic / allistic, etc) as a fairly general kludge. Even quantifying what those mean is currently in flux as we sort out and dive into these ideas.

I have lived experience with two rough groups of people. Folks that use precise and direct language and folks that use language as a way to vibe, feel, and engage with others (rather than communicate specific thoughts, ideas, and concepts, etc).

And I see how one group interacts well within their methodologies but has trouble with the other group and vice versa.

I even know folks from both groups that act as translators and understand each other.

As a quick aside I have two sisters. One I would describe as neurotypical and the other (and myself) as neurodivergent. We all understand each other as we grew up together and we very specifically understand the differences in our communication styles and will even "code-switch" (not a perfect metaphor) with each other.

Anyhow. Take those current terms and understand that they're imperfect...

...which makes that concept of a "natural language" model even all the more hideous to me.

Natural to whom?

@tinker I miss proper search syntax so much. There was a help page explaining it, an advanced form, and they even taught it in normie school... 😮‍💨

@tinker

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VTjsDNq1Eqw

@tinker

> Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

If you think wanting natural language search is a recent desire, or invention, or a tool of the neurotypical, you are woefully misinformed.

E.g., https://www.mcgovern.org/the-legacy-of-patrick-j-mcgovern/from-the-pages-of-tech-history/april-4-1973-geologists-use-natural-language-system-to-study-moon-samples/ from the early '70s.

Or https://github.com/JanWielemaker/chat80 in the early '80s.

More history in https://www.e3s-conferences.org/articles/e3sconf/pdf/2021/05/e3sconf_iccsre2021_01039.pdf.

@tinker i started to ask the search engine the way the most stupid person i can imagine would ask.
That helps sometimes and always fills me with a deep semse of loss and sadness.

@tinker "nuerodivergent [chose] boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc)'

No. We simply had engineers and developers who cared about what engineers and developers care about: logic, accuracy, consistency. They were replaced with people who cosplay at engineering. Skill was replaced with the affectation of skill.

@tinker am i the only one who is disturbed by the combination of a really good point and heroification of neuro spicy folk?

Neurospicy’s are superior human beings! (Satire)

@tinker Is it really gone

I don't think there's a law forcing everyone to use AI to pentest