@hongminhee

Some people live where transit barely exists, or where it doesn't get them to work, school, or care. In those places, driving is not optional.

Yes, fully agree but does it have to be a huge SUV or gigantic BMW, that is so common in Germany.

I drive an 8 year old Citroen Berlingo,
Euro 6 Diesel, no Bling and enough go to get things done, without the rear seats it has a very large usable space.

But the ladies look down on me and say, no way i would ride in that.

@hongminhee

I would say cut back on unnecessary business travel to hotels and conference rooms but let people visit other countries and experience other cultures.

@hongminhee Many people actually do have a choice about where and how they live. My ability to live comfortably without a car is not merely happenstance, a happy effect of where I live, but because I made personal sacrifices to live where I live. These absolutely were ethical choices. Stop excusing failure to take personal action and accept personal disadvantage.

@hongminhee

Yes. The people who can be shamed are not the problem anyway. The problem are people who are not ashamed of anything. Those who defend the status quo, because they benefit from the conditions we all are living in.

@hongminhee Kind of except that living In Seoul is a choice and the city transportation system is an emergent property of the behavior of the people in the city.
In a democracy, structural failures are kind of moral failings - the decision to make places inaccessible to people with disabilities, that it's better for kids to get asthma and old people get dementia than to pay the taxes for a good transportation system are moral choices.

@hongminhee not sure tarnishing carbon footprint reporting as the "oil company choice" is particularly helpful. People do have agency - to varying degree (e.g., nobody obliges people to buy supersized US SUV's, fly private jets etc.). And producer based accounting is anyway what drives NDC's.

The moral angle of sustainability is imho a quagmire that we barely started unravel. E.g. people feel "normal" to inherit financial assets, how about inheriting also family environmental liabities? 🤔

@hongminhee So many people are forced into owning a car to get anywhere. Americans especially, in cities that only work for car owners. I'm lucky to live with plenty of transit options, in a relatively small European city I can cycle and walk around pretty easily (however much they tried to ruin it back in the 60s.) And it's well connected to the UK's national rail network. I can access many shops and services in my neighborhood. So I've got the option of being car free. So many don't.

@hongminhee I also don't own a car, I took a conscious choice to pick an area with good public transport before moving in... On the other hand I live in Ireland and yeah, it's either plane or ferry to get anywhere. I wish I could use trains.

@hongminhee As a resident of Hawaii Island in an area with little public transportation, thank you. When I lived in San Francisco, I mostly got around on public transit. Not an option yet. But I drive an electric vehicle and do what I can.

@hongminhee The level of implied impending doom is absolutely delightful. LoL

@hongminhee

San Jose's local public transit is infamously bad. Getting more than like 10 miles by bus can take 3-5 times longer than just driving. And there isn't any room to build a comprehensive metro network, we simply have some of the worst light rail in the entire US.

@hongminhee Man... I hate everything written here. I just wished there was public transit where I lived to where I work existed. My work requires me to drive to get from point A to B. With that being said, the public transit I do have access to isn't half bad. Finding work close to me seems less than ideal, but if something does come about, I'd happily use it here in order to use my car less. I like this way of thinking. Thank you very much random internet person.

@hongminhee

First rate post. Thank you for taking the time to build this so well, for making the insight, for formulating it into a message, and for making the message respectful.

Ta.

@hongminhee

Hi Thanks for sharing ! I agree with you when you say that it depends on the conditions we live in, and that it depends on public policy.

However, on the following point I disagree with the "nothing" word.

> If the alternative is missing or unusable, shaming people for not choosing it solves *nothing*.

I live in France, and going in north / South america is basically not possible without fly. (1/x)