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@liaizon@social.wake.st

I've been saying this

the SWF is just kinda there but to my knowledge doesn't really do much outside of like wordpress and mastodon. and working with meta i guess.

I for one have never heard of anyone from the SWF or Mastodon reaching out to other implementations to coordinate on, say, quotes with authorization.

meanwhile on the ATProto end, there is groups like https://standard.site just to standardize long-form content.

RE: RE: https://social.wake.st/users/liaizon/statuses/116085803934401494

wakest ⁂ FOSDEM

@liaizon@social.wake.st · yesterday

I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"

I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.

*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto

Evan Prodromou

@evan@cosocial.ca · 30 minutes ago

@alexia @liaizon 👋🏼

You can check our blog for the work we do. I try to share our efforts pretty regularly.

https://socialwebfoundation.org/blog/

Long-form text was one of our first projects. You can see our work on FEP-b2b8 and the conformance tests we did with producers and consumers.

Please lmk if you have other questions!

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Julian Fietkau

@julian@fietkau.social · 2 hours ago

@alexia Funnily enough, the ActivityPub equivalent of standard.site (a shared vocabulary for long-form articles) was actually formalized by the SWF: https://socialwebfoundation.org/2024/11/07/draft-guidance-for-long-form-text/comment-page-1/

I wasn't part of the process (except for one late-game pull request), so I can't tell you who started talking to whom first, but I know it involved a handful of AP platforms. https://community.nodebb.org/topic/18591/long-formers-activate

@liaizon

Alexia ΘΔ

@alexia@app.wafrn.net · 2 hours ago

@liaizon@social.wake.st @julian@fietkau.social

Yeah I know that long-form content was one of the SWF's first projects (or at least, that's what I remember), but standard.site is just one example of many, and a more prominent one as making long-form content on protocols seems to be especially popular.

I guess I am just frustrated that often it feels like the coordination only exists within a smaller bubble of "larger" projects, mostly Mastodon and perhaps things like GoToSocial. Looking at ourselves, projects like Sharkey or Akkoma, to my knowledge none of these were contacted about anything over the past year or so, despite having similar priorities -- we've wanted to ship an "Article" post type for a while now for longer form posts, but for now we've only ended up using it for /about and other such internal pages, in part due to time, and in part due to the semantics between how this is displayed differing so much between software.

We already have code to handle specific deficiencies between say, "old quotes" and "new quotes" a-la what Mastodon does now, versus what everyone else did before, like inserting a mention to posts we quote to work around the fact that Mastodon doesn't receive them otherwise (which is, to be clear, a workaround that stuck from before Mastodon got quotes)

Julian Fietkau

@julian@fietkau.social · 1 hour ago

@alexia Okay, now I understand your point better!

Whenever I have some ActivityPub idea, I post about it publicly and see who “bites.” This biases things towards people who already know me.

There are forums like SocialHub or ActivityPub.space that could mitigate this effect. I don't always remember to tag their categories.

I'm currently drafting a FEP for interaction controls based on the GTS spec: https://fietkau.social/@julian/116053752525897737 If you know anyone who would like to be part of that, lmk!

@liaizon

Alexia ΘΔ

@alexia@app.wafrn.net · 1 hour ago

@liaizon@social.wake.st @julian@fietkau.social

oh, I think we would be perfect for that actually! we recently (like, 2 days ago) pushed the relevant code and deployed it to app.wafrn.net

we implemented GoToSocial's spec de-facto, in addition to Bluesky's (due to us federating over both AP and AT), but we think there's things to be improved here (like gating a whole thread instead of per-post) that have found some interest from GTS' team too, from what I've heard from gabbo at least.

ps: also funny you mention bites, we have that literally

Julian Fietkau

@julian@fietkau.social · 1 hour ago

@alexia Actually @gabboman is already in the Matrix chat, so I think we've got wafrn covered! I was thinking moreso about projects like Sharkey and Akkoma, where I don't believe I know anyone except in very distant passing. Plus, drafting RFC-style documentation isn't everyone's deal.

My stance on participation in the FEP at this stage has been “not public yet, but open door,” so anyone who would like to contribute (or has strong opinions) is welcome. 🙂

@liaizon

wakest ⁂ FOSDEM

@liaizon@social.wake.st · 1 hour ago

@julian @alexia @gabboman hey @julia (Sharkey maintainer) and @FloatingGhost (maintainer of Akkoma) are either of you interested in participating in drafting a Comment Controls FEP or have any points that should be kept in mind specific to either of your projects?

1+ more replies (not shown)

julian

@julian@activitypub.space · 1 hour ago

Re: I've been saying this

TIL we support <small>, that's fun.

NodeBB's been holding off on interaction controls specifically because there isn't an FEP, but we'll sign on when one is written (and @julian@fietkau.social is certainly on the ball with that one, so 👍 )

He's also been proactive in ensuring that context-aware policies are accounted for, even if not explicitly defined anywhere at current.

julian

@julian@activitypub.space · 2 hours ago

Re: I've been saying this

Hi @alexia@app.wafrn.net, I'd like to work with you on getting Article support improved.

Happy to chat here publicly or over DM to get you up to speed on what the current state is.

But since I did not proactively reach out I offer my apologies. It was not my intention to exclude, it was simply who physically happened to be there at FOSDEM 2025 (NodeBB, WordPress, Ghost, Writefreely)

mradcliffe

@mradcliffe@nokoto.org · 1 hour ago

Re: Re: I've been saying this

@julian @alexia I was trying to follow this thread via ActivityPub, but unfortunately I am only able to read alexia’s posts by visiting activitypub.space directly (which is perfectly fine because I like visiting and reading content on other people’s web sites directly!).

It seems like its returning text/html for me when I try to access them internally despite asking for ActivityPub content via an Accept header.

Re: Re: I've been saying this

mradcliffe

@mradcliffe@nokoto.org · 1 hour ago

Re: Re: Re: I've been saying this

@julian @alexia I wonder if I am getting 404’d, and the 404 response is in HTML rather than one of the ActivityPub Content-Types. :|

Edit: No, it's not a 404. And only the blog post URLs. The replies collection comes through fine, but the post itself is HTML.

Re: Re: Re: I've been saying this

julian

@julian@activitypub.space · 45 minutes ago

Re: I've been saying this

@mradcliffe@nokoto.org were you talking about NodeBB returning a 404?

Alexia ΘΔ

@alexia@app.wafrn.net · 1 hour ago

@julian@activitypub.space

honestly, that is fair enough. I guess it makes sense that visibility for projects is better where there is the capacity to visit events and such.

and sorry if it sounded a bit condescending, I guess I am just a bit sad that things seem to be 'going so well' over in AT land.

the primary backend developer here is @gabboman@gabboman.xyz, I mostly dabble in frontend stuff; To my knowledge we already handle incoming Article activities but actually support a larger set of HTML tags than what is described in the relevant FEP published by the SWF. $[fg.color=FF0000 like this here red text]

most importantly, thank you for reaching out.

julian

@julian@activitypub.space · 1 hour ago

Re: I've been saying this

Yes, it also disappoints me at times, because I see lots of effort over trying to figure out how to engage AP developers better — with minimal results, and meanwhile the Bluesky people are just seemingly having a ball over there riding on inertia.

In addition to work I'm doing trying to improve interop between threadiverse apps, I do try to help by providing DevOps style support for those looking to integrate AP.

Perhaps there's more I can do, I just don't know what it is.

wakest ⁂ FOSDEM

@liaizon@social.wake.st · 2 hours ago

@julian@fietkau.social @alexia @Gargron this initiative (largely led by @julian@activitypub.space) has been amazing and I love to see it. There is now a new initiative taking shape along the same lines with Event type standardization that was talked about at FOSDEM with @linos and a bunch of people. But honestly we need so so so much more of this type of initiative going forward.

julian

@julian@activitypub.space · 2 hours ago

Re: I've been saying this

@liaizon@social.wake.st thanks for the mention, but I can't take credit for that one.

@evan@cosocial.ca actually did the legwork of getting folks literally in a room together to work it out.

@darius@friend.camp and I had some other solutions we wanted to get pushed through (namely UI changes to greatly improve non-Note support) but alas no luck yet.

Evan Prodromou

@evan@cosocial.ca · 6 minutes ago

@julian @liaizon @darius I hope we can get that updated! I think reading long-form text in microblogging interfaces is really important.

Eugen Rochko

@Gargron@mastodon.social · 2 hours ago

@alexia @liaizon At Mastodon we have most certainly reached out to other projects to coordinate on quotes with authorization...

Alexia ΘΔ

@alexia@app.wafrn.net · 2 hours ago

@liaizon@social.wake.st @Gargron@mastodon.social

How far did that go? I know that GoToSocial was contacted, but I have not heard anything from Sharkey, upstream Misskey, nor Akkoma or Pleroma, and we of course heard of what's happening but AFAIK haven't been contacted either.

Though, mind you, I was moreso talking about how I believe the SWF should be the coordinator here, as they are the foundation that is supposed to consolidate and coordinate work in the space, after all. Not so much Mastodon gGmbH themselves. Sorry if that wasn't quite clear in the post

wakest ⁂ FOSDEM

@liaizon@social.wake.st · 2 hours ago

@Gargron @alexia instead of being defensive we could take this as an opportunity to see that there is a lack of communication on a bunch of fronts. The roll out of quote post support across the fediverse has been great to see but there are a lot of frustrations with it still and I think a lot more could be done in future standard upgrades with inter-project communication

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