@alextecplayz here's the help page, so you can judge for yourself https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-ai-controls. We mostly refrain from using "opt-in" because people have different definitions of opt-in, e.g. some have said it's only opt-in if it's in a separate binary.
I asked for UI that shows downloaded models, but there wasn't time for that in 148. I'll keep asking for it 😀
@firefoxwebdevs TY, this is a nice feature 🩷
I have nothing else to (constructively) add, more that I agree with the points that it should be opt-in and perhaps some of the alarmist language / design be toned down. Still a step in the right direction, so that's great to see.
@alextecplayz fwiw, the individual features are, to some extent, opt in. As in, AI models are not downloaded and used until you engage with the feature, e.g. via the "Suggest more of my tabs" button.
@giacomo @alextecplayz I don't think it's particularly unusual to offer features at the point they might be useful. This follows the pattern of e.g. asking for microphone permission. You're asked at a time that it might be useful to you, you don't have to say yes, and there are ways to avoid ever being asked.
@firefoxwebdevs Makes sense IMO, that's a better explanation. If the features don't run until the user explicitly wants to use the features, it's fine by me.
Does the AI Controls page specify that the AI models aren't downloaded until the specific feature(s) are used for the first time? Or does a linked help article from that page specify this?
It'd be nice to inform users about this in the browser, maybe even offer some details on how much storage the models use, and a link to the about:addons page for On-device AI to manage the installed models.
@alextecplayz here's the help page, so you can judge for yourself https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-ai-controls. We mostly refrain from using "opt-in" because people have different definitions of opt-in, e.g. some have said it's only opt-in if it's in a separate binary.
I asked for UI that shows downloaded models, but there wasn't time for that in 148. I'll keep asking for it 😀
What Mozilla did: ⬆️
What the users actually wanted: ⬇️
https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@duke_of_germany/115853330852766984
Regarding "[...] I'm not personally in a position to action results of such a poll":
Are you in the position to bring up the results of such a poll in a meeting with your team & boss?
And if so, did you?
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs they're aware of the sentiment. I'm sure you're aware that Mastodon has a high representation of folks who don't like AI, so presenting evidence that Mastodon users don't like AI is kinda… well… not really useful.
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs evidence was clearly that "folks who don't like AI" don't like AI *BUILT INTO FIREFOX*
you are wasting everyone's time and misrepresenting all the arguments as an irrational denial of AI that others might find useful.
It was always about the absurdity of integrating something, ANYTHING, that is not critical to web browsing, directly into the browser instead of making it a plug in, on equal ground to 3rd party developers.
Instead, this nonsense
@fasterandworse @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs let me be absolutely clear, yet again: I do not consider the arguments being presented here to be irrational.
If you feel I've said that, can you point to where?
No, Jake, I am not aware of this, and I do not believe this to be true.
Mastodon users might be special in the way they articulate their opinion, but by no means does this represent a fringe notion.
See for example the links in the reply of @jonny, or the ongoing AI-vote by DuckDuckGo: https://voteyesornoai.com/.
Ask an arbitrary group of people head on if they want genAI directly built into their software, and they will overwhelmingly say "no".
Stop portraying Mastodon users as the "anti-AI crazies".
Instead, ask yourself: "What is the relation between Mastodon users & Firefox?"
The answer:
An overwhelming number of Mastodon users used to be your champions.
They are tech people who used to recommend Firefox to the normies in their life. A crowd of mini-influencers, recommending your product.
And I don't understand why you go out of your way to alienate exactly these people.
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs i keep seeing this cop-out, but i have yet to see any polling from mozilla that says a majority of their users do want AI in their browser.
e.g. 14 days ago i see an informal poll in reddit with the same conclusion - https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1qhfvkw/interested_in_your_views_on_ai_in_firefox/
the thread inviting people to comment on the AI window a few weeks ago was the same thing, overwhelmingly negative - https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/building-ai-the-firefox-way-shaping-what-s-next-together/td-p/109922
so if in community after community people are nearly unanimous about the pivot to AI, it seems like the burden is on firefox dev team to show that there is some silent majority that is loving it rather than insisting that every community is an echo chamber
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @jonny
Real
"Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong." vibes.
@firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social
>Won't see features
I've seen that before with Brave. Their "complete removal of Leo" means "Remove UI elements from the user".
I am not convinced.
@sarah I'm not sure what we can do to convince you other than hold the promise over time.
@firefoxwebdevs @sarah maybe start by talking to your CEO:
> Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser and support a portfolio of new and trusted software additions.
https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/leadership/mozillas-next-chapter-anthony-enzor-demeo-new-ceo/
This vision is a huge reason why people are not convinced. That, and how getting Firefox to implement these controls at long last felt like pulling teeth.
@firefoxwebdevs Great. Make it the default. Listen to the survey.
@fabio @firefoxwebdevs survey only shows a tiny fraction of the total userbase. why it should influencethe default?
@wojtek @firefoxwebdevs What do you think about the ethical concerns?
@nikclayton @firefoxwebdevs of the AI? I would dance on the bonfire on bigtech ;)
alas -- I do find certain uses of LLMs (not necesarily what altman is doing) in general having some uses… that's all.
