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Elena Rossini ⁂
Elena Rossini ⁂
@_elena@mastodon.social  ·  activity timestamp last week

@kelvin0mql 😂😂😂 you genuinely made me laugh out loud

I have a 5 year old and I approve of this message 😆

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Andreas
Andreas
@andreasio@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena @laurenshof
Maybe this post? https://vger.to/lemmy.ca/comment/21378149

I'm not some big technical guy, but there is a pretty fundamental difference in how the protocols work. Mastodon uses ActivityPub, Bluesky uses the AT Protocol.

ActivityPub is like email, it's an exchange protocol. So basically you create a link between two accounts by "following" and that says "whenever A posts something, deliver it in this format to B".

ATProto is a bit more complex. It's based around the idea of nodes. A node in this sense is basically a pile of letters. If I decide to post something, that letter gets thrown into the pile with some info like user tags, etc. Another user somewhere else who follows me is in essence just telling their client "pull out all the letters that A has thrown into this pile and shown them to me". And then you have a front facing client that displays the result of that filter in a convenient way. On the one hand, this is why topic lists (I think called collections?) are much easier/better in Bluesky because at the end of the day it's just another filter onto the pile, whereas with an ActivityPub based collection would be a bit more complicated.

In practice what this basically means is that Bluesky is federated in name only. If the Bluesky board decided one day that you couldn't post about cats, but I really wanted to post about cats, I would have to then host the node, the filtering apparatus, and (potentially) the front end. The node hosting specifically is the most technically onerous. If I wanted the Catsky node to federate with the Bluesky node, I would need to set up a tunnel between the two, then posts from Bluesky that the Catsky users would want to see would also be deposited into my node meaning my storage requirements would go up quickly. Conversely, you can run a stable Mastodon instance on a raspberry pi because you only need to be able to store what you want to see, not the entirety of the platform. I personally have only heard of one other successfully hosted node (Blacksky for Black Twitter refugees) and I'm not sure it federates with Bluesky.

In the end, Bluesky works a lot like OG Twitter, which was just a lump of storage and the actual product was the API, but with a couple ropes dangling out the sides with a sign saying "go ahead, hook up, and federate, we don't mind". This is unsurprising as Bluesky and the ATProto were made in essence by the OG Twitter people

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Matthias Pfefferle
Matthias Pfefferle
@pfefferle@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena @laurenshof are you in Brussels already? Maybe this might be interesting for you https://luma.com/9f10yt6f!?

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Kelvin n0mql EN35ld
Kelvin n0mql EN35ld
@kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena
OK, here we go (cracks knuckles, takes a deep breath, sighs)...

"You're five. You should not be on social media."

(Other than the joke, I'm useless here. Good luck.)

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Elena Rossini ⁂
Elena Rossini ⁂
@_elena@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@kelvin0mql 😂😂😂 you genuinely made me laugh out loud

I have a 5 year old and I approve of this message 😆

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Kelvin n0mql EN35ld
Kelvin n0mql EN35ld
@kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena
Is it weird that I picture that scene from #GalaxyQuest any time someone says "explain it like I'm 5" or similar?

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Laurens Hof
Laurens Hof
@laurenshof@indieweb.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena sup

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Elena Rossini ⁂
Elena Rossini ⁂
@_elena@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@laurenshof Hi Laurens! Can I DM you on Signal about this?

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Elena Rossini ⁂
Elena Rossini ⁂
@_elena@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@laurenshof Hi Laurens! Can I DM you on Signal about this?

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Laurens Hof
Laurens Hof
@laurenshof@indieweb.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena sure!

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Maho Pacheco 🦝🍻
Maho Pacheco 🦝🍻
@mapache@hachyderm.io replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena I am not an expert but if I can help let me know. I have strong suspicions about why W selected atproto instead of activitypub.

Basically there is more power in the biggest actors, a more "centralized" control, to ban/shadow-ban/censure and pull the plug.

In other words it is more impactful when bluesky sidebanned someone or some community than if mastodon.social would do it. The firehose/relay is a the biggest point of control.

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Maho Pacheco 🦝🍻
Maho Pacheco 🦝🍻
@mapache@hachyderm.io replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena So in my opinion. Why W choosed atproto instead of activitypub? It is more interesting for investors to create a platform that can be controlled, even if it is just to introduce ads or control the discourse.

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Elena Rossini ⁂
Elena Rossini ⁂
@_elena@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@mapache yes, this was my suspicion too... I have a really technical question about AT Proto and their open source code though... if you could think of anyone who could help, I'm all ears :)

And see you at FOSDEM on Saturday?

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Phillip Vuchetich
Phillip Vuchetich
@philvuchetich@bsd.network replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena @mapache Are you familiar with @cwebber ? She is one of the original authors of the ActivityPub spec and has shared a technical, but approachable, description of ATProto with comparisons to ActivityPub. I read it as a fedi thread a year or so ago, but it looks like it is in a web page format at https://dustycloud.org/blog/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/ with additional followup https://dustycloud.org/blog/re-re-bluesky-decentralization/

Re: Re: Bluesky and Decentralization -- Dustycloud Brainstorms

How decentralized is Bluesky really? -- Dustycloud Brainstorms

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Elena Rossini ⁂
Elena Rossini ⁂
@_elena@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@philvuchetich yes of course I’m familiar with this piece by the legend @cwebber - when she first published it, I shared it with sooo many people. Absolutely brilliant.

In my exposé of W Social I won’t get too deep into protocols, but I may mention this when discussing the costs involved in setting up a fork with its own appview. So thanks for the reminder 🙏

@mapache

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Maho Pacheco 🦝🍻
Maho Pacheco 🦝🍻
@mapache@hachyderm.io replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena sure. And out of curiosity what is the question

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Elena Rossini ⁂
Elena Rossini ⁂
@_elena@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@mapache all good now, Laurens answered for me. It was about Bluesky's "dataplane implementation" and PostgreSQL

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Maho Pacheco 🦝🍻
Maho Pacheco 🦝🍻
@mapache@hachyderm.io replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena technically is because setting-up/supporting/maintaining the firehose/relay layer is very expensive. Every single message would flow thru there.

Creating the biggest firehose in Europe is such a power. So, it is easier to be controlled, and very unlikely to be replicated by other entities.

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Elena Rossini ⁂
Elena Rossini ⁂
@_elena@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@mapache can I quote you on this in my piece?

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GunChleoc
GunChleoc
@gunchleoc@mastodon.scot replied  ·  activity timestamp last week

@_elena @mapache They also want to require identity verification for their users, so that fits https://www.t-online.de/digital/internet/id_101092238/soziales-netzwerk-aus-europa-will-elon-musk-konkurrenz-machen-w-statt-x.html

Otherwise, they could just go for EuroSky if they want an ATProto network

t-online

W statt X? Europäer planen neues soziales Netzwerk

Europa braucht eigene digitale Lösungen und Unabhängigkeit von den USA, heißt es immer häufiger. Investoren aus der Klimaschutz-Szene kündigen einen europäischen Ersatz für Elon Musks Plattform X an.
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