Discussion
#WritersCoffeeClub 26 Sept: How does your faith feature in your works?
As I'm an atheist, it doesn't. But I'm not an ex-Christian atheist: I'm an ex-Reform Jewish (British subtype) atheist, so my atheism is axiomatically different from yours …
(Hint: if you think the term "Judeo-Christian Values" describes a real thing, you would be wrong—Judaism has no afterlife, no hell, and no Devil, for starters. Then it rapidly gets even more different.)
PS: in my fiction I mock religious fanatics.
@cstross There has never been a single instance of someone using the phrase Judeo-Christian where I haven't wanted to shout "Leave (((us))) the fuck out of it"
@PizzaDemon @cstross You probably already know this but just to be pedantic, the legitimate term for the group of related Faiths from the Middle-East is "Abrahamic". The phrase "Judeo-Christian" was created to exclude Muslims from their little club. But since the U.S. media is owned by billionaire bigots, the term became wide-spread. So, according to them, (((you))) should feel privileged to be in their little group.
@Ambulocetus @PizzaDemon Yes. divide-and-conquer via embrace-and-extend is a favourite tactic of the evangelical right. See also their attack on the LGBT umbrella by targeting trans rights, following the collapse of their attempt to block marriage equality. If you can choose who belongs to an in-group or an out-group, you can dominate it.
@cstross @Ambulocetus @PizzaDemon And how “Christian-Zionists” send millions of dollars to the illegal settlements in the West Bank. Do they build hospitals? No, they build playgrounds for all the children they encourage the settlers to have. They want a war, can’t have their second coming without it.
So, the absence of faith (and therefore your faith) influences your writing. Or am i misunderstanding what you wrote?
@DanKen You're not misunderstanding! But it's very specifically not the absence of *your* faith that you'll see the outline of in my writing.
I'd be very surprised if I find my faith anywhere outside my head. I mean, i'm not even able to tell someone what my faith is (or if i really have one).
@cstross The biggest difference I see between the atheists I know that have come from Christian faith and ones that have come from Jewish faith is that the Jewish ones often still consider themselves Jewish, but non-religiously so, while the Christian ones almost never describe themselves as still Christian.
My parents forced me to go to a protestant church as a child. But I'm not sure I'd consider myself an ex-Christian atheist, as I never thought of myself as Christian to begin with. I guess that makes me axiomatically atheist 😉
@technothrasher Judaism is not simply a set of ritual practices (it's possible to be an observant Jew who doesn't believe in God, per the rabbinate): it's also an ethnicity. It's amazing how many non-Jews can't wrap their heads around that …
Anyway, I'm an atheist who is ethnically Jewish—when the Nazis come, they won't give a shit that I'm an atheist: I know where I stand. (OTOH I'm also anti-Zionist, which is an entirely orthogonal issue.)
@cstross When the nazis come, the atheism will be considered another strike. They may not believe in the state religion. They may well, and probably do, laugh derisively at the state religion, but that won’t stop them from beating your brains out for not being part of it.
@cstross @technothrasher
“It's amazing how many non-Jews can't wrap their heads around that …”
And the same people don’t get that not all Arabian peoples are Muslim.
@cstross no afterlife? Maimonides’s 13th article of faith is just that, belief in the resurrection of the dead.
@kevin Physical resurrection of the dead *on Earth* is not heaven/hell. (Nor is being remembered in the Book of Life the same thing.)
@cstross that is very similar to what (creedal) Christians believe, that after the last judgment, the resurrected will be given new bodies to live in a new Earth. The Christian afterlife is not disembodied platonic ghosts either. I can’t see how resurrection, bodily or not, is not an afterlife
@kevin It's definitely not an as-currently-constructed Christian one, complete with a Devil, and redemption for folks who believe in Christ. So of necessity Jewish atheism is *not* Christian atheism—you're rejecting different beliefs.
@cstross
Fun! I'm an ex-Catholic atheist (well, more or less), so I'm currently stuck between being extremely anti-clerical and thinking that maybe the Church had something to recommend it. I've very little love for Rome, but they do very well at keeping a lid on their extremists, and well... honestly, I wish we had the option of just out and excommunicating a lot of people.
But then, my parents were awful enough that going to mass each week and meeting other adults is why I'm at least
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@cstross When people ask my religion, I say I am non-religious. If they then ask "atheist?" I say "No, non-religious. Atheism is a form of religion since all they talk about is religion." This whole post proves my point.