Post by @mnl@hachyderm.io

What’s the point of posting or boosting this kind of stuff? Who does it help? Who is it for?

If those are your ideals, then why not live them? If the answer is because the goal is to share your ideals to a broader audience, your statement becomes contradictory.

What upsets me is that the only response to such a post is fostering a feeling of apathy and resignation. “Oh well, I agree but nothing I can do about it” (see the comments). Either you believe (as I do) that computation can lead to progress, or … wtf are you doing on social media and using computers in the first place, or worse, actively using your energy to build _more_ software.

A toot by christine lemme-Webber stating “the safest form of computing is still abstinence.”

18 Replies

5 Boosts

khm

@khm@hj.9fs.net 35 min. ago

hey bud sorry if someone already told you but you appear to have typed this prompt into mastodon instead of your chatbot session

Katerina Marchán

@zkat@fedi.zkat.tech 2 hr. ago

@mnl @cwebber hahaha Christine you caught a real sucker

Christine Lemmer-Webber

@cwebber@social.coop 3 hr. ago

@mnl The only way we can be safe is to stop using computers. It's the only practice I can, and will, advocate. We shouldn't be having this conversation but I will make an exception to spread my anti-computer propaganda

People who work on communication protocols should be ashamed of themselves

mnl mnl mnl mnl mnl

@mnl@hachyderm.io 2 hr. ago

@cwebber I get that you care about using computing to improve the world, and am going to assume that you care about making people/programs safe, and that you want to joke about the tension between what computing is used for and what it isn’t. But you can’t be oblivious to how such posts are received and how the “only snark allowed, don’t you dare openly say you believe computers/ai/networks/iot can be used to improve things, or we’ll come down on you and label you an idiot” sentiment is so widespread on mastodon.

People who write manifestos about bullying legit calling me brain rotten, people with meta and google on their resume calling me a techbro, a sucker because I said I care about improving things with technology, without trying to engage with my post charitably, it’s omnipresent here.

Christine Lemmer-Webber

@cwebber@social.coop 30 min. ago

@mnl I don't believe only snark is allowed! I never took such a position or advocated for such a thing, nor do I believe it?

The post, which I made, was meant to be something to be reflected upon. It's clearly not correct, so *why isn't* it correct? (Well, in a sense, it is correct, it's just not that it's *useful advice*, just as it isn't in sex ed.) And what is left in the negative space, if it isn't?

But your original post took it in a literal way, and I'm sure if you do know about my work, which you seem to, you know that what you're asserting isn't what I think.

mnl mnl mnl mnl mnl

@mnl@hachyderm.io 21 min. ago

@cwebber I realize I was probably too terse in my original post. I wondered because I know you are being snarky, but it is so widely interpreted as being an excuse to not do anything. I know you (obviously) care and I do advocate for harm reduction as well. (btw, I decided to leave your name in there because it seemed dishonest not too and because the post keeps popping up my timeline every other day and thus is widely public. It got misinterpreted and I learned my lesson and would cut it out next time. Sorry if that made it feel like a personal attack.)

As you can see in the answers here, it's basically "hahaha you took the post too literally", which even if I did, what would be worth dunking on? Of all the social media places I frequent, mastodon seems the one where it feels that hardest to even mention the idea of a harm reduction approach to tech, and it sucks, especially because I cannot just block everybody (nor do I want to) but have a timeline that's filled with snark takes, day in day out.

1+ more replies

Christine Lemmer-Webber

@cwebber@social.coop 19 min. ago

@mnl Rather than going over who's right for their way of posting here, which honestly isn't that interesting of a back and forth to me, I'll simply say that: I agree that it's worth doing things and not taking a nihilistic view! That's my whole modus operandi!

I *also* think that one of the effective ways of being able to elicit change *is* humor. But it's good to not *only* use humor! And each and every day, I try to work on real and actionable solutions to things :)

mnl mnl mnl mnl mnl

@mnl@hachyderm.io 16 min. ago

@cwebber yeah i'm not very interested in that, but I know that sadly it is important, and I suck at it (ironically, trying too hard is counterproductive). so just to be clear this was about the reception and wondering why you do it, because I think (assumed, maybe uncharitably) you must be aware of the behavior these posts seem to encourage. I'm also tired of trying to uphold myself to the highest moral standards personally, to be told _every damn time_ on here that I'm some kind of class traitor, by people who are benefiting from the machine just as much if not more. It's exhausting.

Christine Lemmer-Webber

@cwebber@social.coop 24 min. ago

@mnl But I will give the following critique: given that you clearly know about my work, and you know that the positions you outlined are not what I believe, is it really fair to say "it's not fair that I'm being dunked on" here when you also quote posted me and made assertions that, based on your own posts, you seem to think are not what I believe?

I'm not upset! But it does mean that if I'm replying sarcastically, presumably, I can't be so totally in the wrong relative to this conversation's premise?

Perrin42

@Perrin42@mastodon.social 2 hr. ago

@cwebber @mnl

I agree. Down with IPv6 and HTTPS! Bring out the torches and pitchforks!

😆

Parade du Grotesque 💀

@ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org 2 hr. ago

@cwebber

"People who work on communication protocols should be ashamed of themselves"

Good to know you are back on the Fediverse Christine! And in tip top form as well! 😂

@mnl

Christine Lemmer-Webber

@cwebber@social.coop 2 hr. ago

@ParadeGrotesque @mnl I will not stop until my campaign to end the free flow of information with computers has succeeded

Parade du Grotesque 💀

@ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org 2 hr. ago

@cwebber

I expected nothing less from you!

We all stand united behind you: lead the way!!

@mnl

Matt Hall

@401matthall@mastodon.xyz 3 hr. ago

@mnl

It's satirical.

And I find it delightful.

Christine is at least in part responsible for the protocol that Fedi runs on.

She computers plenty.

Some of us are here for reasons that wander outside of all things must computer.

Matt Hall

@401matthall@mastodon.xyz 3 hr. ago

@cwebber

Christine, if I'm _underselling_ your work, sincerest apologies. <3

Christine Lemmer-Webber

@cwebber@social.coop 3 hr. ago

@401matthall No you got it, it's quasi-satire, lol

The point is that abstinence-only education is about as effective for computing as it is for sex in terms of having a healthier population. And yet, it's obviously true in both cases that it's the "safest" option, but presenting it is not helpful.

So, how to make things actually safer?

And that's what my work is about.

But it's interesting to see someone take me absolutely seriously about a post like that

Spiritual Lesbian

@eberfreitas@panelinha.club 2 hr. ago

@cwebber @401matthall I know it was satirical, but it made me remember of this talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLZwpH5lCD4

Don't Take the Black Pill - Andrew Kelley | SSW 2026

George Station

@harmonygritz@mastodon.social 2 hr. ago

@cwebber @401matthall Great analogy with sex ed. I never saw your (Christine's) Mar. 2025 original before now, and this is "chef's kiss" timing. I meet w/ academic technology staff in a couple of hours.

They (Cal State IT staff) have been under mandate to implement AI usage for two years, mainly OpenAI, and I've been one of the "what about safety and ethics and why isn't Sam Altman paying US" people. So I hope today's summit goes somewhere.

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