The EU going to make its own digital payments network - awesome stuff, australia should do the same so I don't have to give like 3% of everything I earn as a sole trader to Stripe/Visa/Mastercard. I'd rather give 0.5% to the RBA, or even better, make it "free" and genuine public infrastructure like a road as a way to put more money in the wider economy doing more productive things rather than in payment processor pockets)
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@decryption how would these systems handle fraud and chargebacks?
@jonathantrott dunno, don't care, i just want to pay less to get paid via the internet without forcing customers to jump through hoops
@decryption Is this substantially different to our existing EFTPOS system?
It's less apparent today with the prevalence of contactless payments (where the Visa/Mastercard option is chosen by default), but it's usually still an option if you insert your card into the point of sale machine.
@jamesh yes, it'll work online, not just in-person - can't use eftpos online here
@decryption The group running the eftpos system is the same as the one running BPay and Osko: https://www.auspayplus.com.au
So they have online solutions. I guess the main thing they're missing is a way for the merchant to initiate the transaction.
@jamesh I want people to be able to pop in their debit card or link some sort of digital wallet and instead of Stripe/Pin/PayPal, etc charging me around 1.75% + 30c for that transaction, it's a flat 30c or 0.25% or something significantly cheaper
@decryption So PayTo seems to be their solution for this kind of thing: https://www.auspayplus.com.au/solutions/payto
You'd enter your PayID on the merchant website, and the proposed payment would be forwarded to your bank for you to approve via their online banking website or app.
@jamesh yep, Stripe even supports PayTo, but the fees I pay are the same - so why would I bother telling my customers about this convoluted payment process vs entering a card number or even scanning a QR code? it's almost as if they have no incentive to promote the cheaper payment because the board of AP+ are full of ADI (aka banks) representatives and act in the interest of those banks
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@decryption You are paying Stripe in this case because you're relying on their integration of the payment method. If you wanted to avoid those fees, you'd need to implement your own integration.
I suspect the same will be true of this European system for merchants who don't write their own integration.
@jamesh yes exactly - there should be a government operated equivalent to stripe for basic cash transfer between people for the digital age. Like right now I can set up a physical shop, take cash from people and pay 0% fees. I can't do that online but there should be (and I'd even pay for it, just not the 2-3% effective rate that seems to be the status quo)
@decryption I'm not going to claim that the PayID/PayTo system is perfect, but the fees are small enough (a few cents per transaction) that banks often absorb them.
It does hurt a bit that there is no standard UI for these systems. That's essentially a side effect of the system being owned by the banks, and the banks not wanting it to replace their relationship with the customer. If the bank implements it well, it has the potential to provide a good user experience though.
Imagine entering your email or phone number as the payer on the merchant website, and getting a push notification on your phone. The notification opens the banking app where you can verify the amount and the recipient are correct and confirm the transaction. The merchant is notified, and completes the checkout process. It's also got the potential to be more resistant to phishing, since the merchant is not in control of the payment confirmation process.
It's hard to say whether the EU system will be better than that, since it doesn't exist yet. There's three years until it rolls out, so they may not have locked down any of these details.
@decryption Don't we already kind of have this with "Least Cost Routing" on debit cards? It seems like the harder challenge will be getting people to stop using credit cards because of the point schemes.
@decryption we already have a world leading digital payments network. They just need to regulate least cost routing to get the same benefit.
@sinjut could use your bankcard at tuckerbag to buy groceries
@decryption Unfortunately it will never happen, because Prime Fuckmuppet Albo and everyone else in the Can are too afraid of upsetting their corporate overlords.
@andyb @decryption there’s always a chance of a cushy post-politics job schmoozing for Mastercard or whatever. Keep the options open!
@andyb total pack of spineless pricks
@decryption yeah, payment fees at this stage are just extracting rent.
@nizmow the RBA is totally aware of it and the government totally knows, but they don't care