Discussion
@mihamarkic @billiglarper @JohanEmpa
So what? 90% wind and solar with biogas and waste wood pellets for difficult gaps? They could run with that forever or switch to more solar/wind and more storage when the prices drop. IMO they need to switch to waste only biogas though.
We don't have to do it all with technical purity today. Keep adding solar wind and storage as the prices drop and keep biogas around just in case.
OTOH, inland northern Europe. One of the strongest nuke use cases.
@Tallish_Tom @billiglarper @JohanEmpa More storage? What storage exactly?
@mihamarkic @billiglarper @JohanEmpa
Take your pick Sodium-ion, Iron air, Lithium (maybe), flow. But probably Sodium-ion. And maybe just keep the biogas generators topped up for emergencies. Biogas from agricultural waste is a perfectly good top-up source.
@Tallish_Tom @mihamarkic @JohanEmpa
Once people get in on the money, the "problem" seems to be an "overproduction". (Yes, that's an updated article from 11 years ago)
https://trellis.net/article/small-town-germany-becomes-testing-ground-smart-grid/
As for grid scale batteries, in Brandenburg it seems to be Lithium (400MW with 1600 MWh per site).
https://www.rbb24.de/wirtschaft/beitrag/2025/11/leag-batteriespeicher-standort-boxberg-cottbus.html
Germany installed 2GW of storage (3.55 GWh) in the first 6 months of 2025.
https://www.pv-magazine.de/2025/07/18/fast-2-millionen-batteriespeicher-mit-22-gigawattstunden-kapazitaet-in-deutschland-bis-ende-1-halbjahr-2025-installiert/
It feels kinda surreal to debate the availability of storage solutions in 2025.
@Tallish_Tom @billiglarper @JohanEmpa The problem is that there is no solution today and we don't know when/if. Will you bet your country's energy on so many unknowns? And even if at least one of those actually becomes a viable solution (quite possibly) there is still a volume problem.
@mihamarkic @billiglarper @JohanEmpa
The solutions today support up to 50% clean why not start on that and see what is available then?
@mihamarkic @billiglarper @JohanEmpa
So don't just do that, buy a nuke plant too. The only nuke you won't be taking an even bigger bet on is a standard PWR or BWR in the 1GW range. Which you'll probably have to wait 10 years for. So why not deploy solar and batteries (and wind) in addition to your current sources while you are waiting?
Assuming you are aiming for energy security and decarbonisation.
@Tallish_Tom @billiglarper @JohanEmpa Besides waiting time and not-so cheap, there is another issue with nuclear - it has to run more or less full power all the time. And if you lower the energy price during the day with solar panels, nuclear energy becomes even more expensive. It's stupid but it is what it is.
@mihamarkic @billiglarper @JohanEmpa
That is a problem with nuclear and renewables coexisting, nuclear is not dispatchable, it is "always on". Gas is much better because it can ramp far more (of course FF, so energy security and climate issues) Batteries are good for nuclear too, for just this reason.
Always on -> dispatchable (nuclear)
Intermitent -> dispatchable (renewables)
@Tallish_Tom @billiglarper @JohanEmpa Gas yields CO2 though which we desperately try to avoid, or at least we should.
@mihamarkic @billiglarper @JohanEmpa
100%, and it is lousy for energy security too, as Europe found out in 2022. Not suggesting it as a solution, just noting it plays better with others than nuclear.
@Tallish_Tom @billiglarper @JohanEmpa I really wish we had those sodium-ion batteries today at scale....
@mihamarkic @billiglarper @JohanEmpa
Yes, sooner would be so much better.
OTOH, Lithium BESS has gone from ~100MWh deployed in 2017 to ~92GWh in 2025. so around 1000x in 8 years (and thats not counting domestic behind the meter).
China deployed a 100MWh Sodium BESS in 2024 so by 2032...
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