Discussion
Loading...

Discussion

  • About
  • Code of conduct
  • Privacy
  • Users
  • Instances
  • About Bonfire
David Gerard
@davidgerard@circumstances.run  ·  activity timestamp 11 hours ago

The key weakness in AI agents is that they're a lie. They don't work. They just don't fuckin' work. You can't set a hallucination engine to work doing tasks. It's pants on head stupid. The hype pretends this isn't the case and hypothesises a fabulous future where they work *at all*. This is a lie.

A useful model for "AI agents" is that they're the current excuse meme for AI. They're not a thing that works at all, now or in the fabulous future. But they're *such* good material for hypecrafting. No sausage at all, but *my god* that sizzle.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this post
  • Block
Marius (windsheep) :donor:​
@windsheep@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp 6 hours ago

@davidgerard There are things AI cannot do today, but many simple software tasks can be automated.
OpenAI however doesn’t work. We know that.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
nonlinear
@nonlinear@social.praxis.nyc replied  ·  activity timestamp 6 hours ago

@davidgerard we live in "any day now" news. it's the news for future news, hopefully, invest on us.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Baltergeist
@Cotopaxi@mstdn.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 6 hours ago

@davidgerard
"Pants on head stupid" is my hero descriptive of the month. 🫶

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Todd Knarr
@tknarr@mstdn.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 7 hours ago

@davidgerard The problem is they sort-of work, just well enough and just often enough to convince people they'll work all the time. Then the moment you trust them, they go "ebola-contaminated diarrhea in pants on head"-stupid. By then it's too late, backing out isn't an option, so everyone who proposed them has to pretend this wasn't normal so they don't look like complete idiots.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Cogito ergo mecagoendios
@elrohir@mastodon.gal replied  ·  activity timestamp 7 hours ago

@davidgerard They do this thing where they cite a percentage of success, such as "we got 60% questions right at SAT". Implicitly they are tricking your mind into thinking there is some sort of a progress bar slowly loading. That the wrinkles are about to be ironed-out soon™.

They are not.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Cogito ergo mecagoendios
@elrohir@mastodon.gal replied  ·  activity timestamp 7 hours ago

@davidgerard They do this thing where they cite a percentage of success, such as "we got 60% questions right at SAT". Implicitly they are tricking your mind into thinking there is some sort of a progress bar slowly loading. That the wrinkles are about to be ironed-out soon™.

They are not.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Mark Harbinger
@Mark_Harbinger@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 7 hours ago

@davidgerard

The sound you hear won't be champagne corks. So...what do you plan to wear for the next, worldwide #GreatDePrAIssion ?

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
atlovato
@atlovato@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 8 hours ago

@davidgerard - Id love to see AI crash.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Jer
@Jer@chirp.enworld.org replied  ·  activity timestamp 8 hours ago

@davidgerard The biggest asset that AI agents have is that they're a great excuse for why companies are laying off thousands of workers. It's not mismanagement or overhiring or a maniac in charge tanking the US economy - it's AI that can do your job better than you and faster that you! It's your fault that you aren't as good as the AI agent that replaces you!

Turns an economic crisis into a morality play to blame the workers. Perfect for the guys in charge right now who are bad at their jobs.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Rodrigo Dias
@rgo@masto.pt replied  ·  activity timestamp 8 hours ago

@davidgerard Tried chaining LLMs for tasks—ends up in loops or wrong outputs. Better for ideation than execution.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Peter
@peter@thepit.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 8 hours ago

@davidgerard using agents to solve "hallucinations" is like if you have a pot of soup with a turd in it, so your solution is to add more broth. your chances of getting the turd go down the more broth (iterations) you add, success!! (also, the soup is now the size of a swimming pool and costs $4,000.)

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Revenant
@Revenant@hear-me.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 8 hours ago

@davidgerard well, yeah.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Dibs
@dtwx@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 9 hours ago

@davidgerard I have multiple examples of Copilot failing to provide accurate information about MS products, which, apparently, Copilot can configure FOR you!

How's that possible?

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
gigantos
@gigantos@social.linux.pizza replied  ·  activity timestamp 9 hours ago

@davidgerard I don’t know what you base this on. It most definitely work for some things, at least some of the time.

For example, someone I know needed to do some stuff with an Arduino to make it show a pretty wave pattern using unevenly distributed led lights. This person was a crafter, not a coder. However, by oploading a hand drawn picture of where the leds where placed it generated a web based simulator with sliders to tweak parameters. Then, when he was happy with the result after tuning the sliders, it generated code for the arduino that compiled and ran perfectly. First try.

It might have been an incredible amount of luck, but this non-technical person got his art project to work without needing to learn anything about code.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Avner
@Avner@anticapitalist.party replied  ·  activity timestamp 8 hours ago

@gigantos @davidgerard "works for some things, at least some of the times" is NOT the way these LLM tools are being pitched. I think there would be much less of a backlash if OpenAI and co were like "hey, here's an occasionally useful tool for generating text and here are the use cases it's actually good at," rather than "fire all your employees and replace them with AI, who cares if it's fit for purpose!"

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
DistroWatch
@distrowatch@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 9 hours ago

@davidgerard "You can't set a hallucination engine to work doing tasks."

You can if your goal is to produce a lot of material that is not correct, or it doesn't matter if the material is correct.

I think that is what people tend to miss about the drive to get AI into the world. The people pushing it don't care if it's accurate, it might even be better for them if it's not, they just want a lot of material that looks passable to some people. They want filler and propaganda and misinformation.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
DistroWatch
@distrowatch@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 9 hours ago

@davidgerard So when you say "they don't work", keep in mind that AI _does_ work as intended. AI agents just aren't very useful for most people. Those statements are contradictions, they're a sign of for whom AI works.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
mossman
@mossman@social.vivaldi.net replied  ·  activity timestamp 10 hours ago

@davidgerard that reminds me... I have to do my company's mandatory agentic AI training course this week... wish me luck 🤮

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Skjeggtroll
@skjeggtroll@mastodon.online replied  ·  activity timestamp 10 hours ago

@davidgerard

Software Agents never made much sense. In order for people to trust them to act on their behalf the task they do have to be so well defined that for all practical purposes it'd better to just automate it.

"AI Agents" make even less sense. Has anyone even suggested one that's more than just an automation wrapper around a sequence of LLM calls and service APIs?

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)
@david_chisnall@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp 11 hours ago

@davidgerard

The use case for 'agents' isn't that they do useful things unattended, it's that they can consume (billed for) tokens unattended.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Artemis
@art_codesmith@toot.cafe replied  ·  activity timestamp 11 hours ago

@davidgerard Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but for what I understood, it's basically the same LLM stuff but in the background?
Basically, if you roll the dice enough times, you might get something that passes all the unit tests?
(And burn a whole bunch of tokens in the process...)

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
David Gerard
@davidgerard@circumstances.run replied  ·  activity timestamp 10 hours ago

@art_codesmith you say "do a thing" and it goes and does the thing! Or what it hallucinates as the thing. This turns out to have a disastrously high failure rate. Also, it's hilariously easy to prompt-inject.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Welbog
@welbog@mstdn.ca replied  ·  activity timestamp 8 hours ago

@davidgerard @art_codesmith It seems to me that we've built a system that has a chance of getting the right answer, but we've given up on finding ways to improve the chances of it getting the right answer. Instead we've wrapped the system in a loop, to check if it has the right answer after each iteration.

It's Bogosort.

The greatest achievement of humanity, worth boiling the oceans for, is Bogosort.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Jonathan Hendry
@jonhendry@iosdev.space replied  ·  activity timestamp 11 hours ago

@davidgerard

People who were losing patience are like “ah, agents, now we’ll surely get what we were promised!” And then it takes a few months or a year for them to figure out, nope it still doesn’t work. By which time the AI grifters will have another silver bullet to pitch.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Androcat
@androcat@toot.cat replied  ·  activity timestamp 11 hours ago

@davidgerard

But say this to the believers and they respond "It simply isn't credible to criticize this technology without acknowledging that it is useful to many people"...

As if they get to demand that we believe the lie when we criticize the lie.

The only thing we gotta acknowledge is that many people are utter tools who want to be lied to.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Log in

bonfire.cafe

A space for Bonfire maintainers and contributors to communicate

bonfire.cafe: About · Code of conduct · Privacy · Users · Instances
Bonfire social · 1.0.0 no JS en
Automatic federation enabled
  • Explore
  • About
  • Members
  • Code of Conduct
Home
Login