Discussion
Loading...

Discussion

  • About
  • Code of conduct
  • Privacy
  • Users
  • Instances
  • About Bonfire
Craig Grannell
@craiggrannell@mastodon.social  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago

Just saw someone whose Google account was shuttered. They’d been… using Sheets to track movies they’d watched.

A question people should ask themselves, but rarely do: What would you do if, tomorrow, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Dropbox, and every other cloud provider you use closed your account without warning? Then maybe spend some of today safeguarding against that eventuality.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this post
  • Block
derlinzer
@derlinzer@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I'd shrug my shoulders. I have not A SINGLE FILE in the cloud, that i don't have locally (and backed up twice). Yes, I'd lose some comfort maybe, but that i can handle.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Andy
@remixman@mastodon.cloud replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell The only thing I use Google for is Gmail. But even so... How would you exit that? Host your own? Couldn't even begin to tell you how to do that.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Craig Grannell
@craiggrannell@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@remixman Backup the emails locally and use your own domain, so you can always shift that elsewhere in an emergency.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
truh
@truh@shark.community replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell Getting locked out of email accounts could be pretty bad. Having backups wouldn't even help all that much.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Craig Grannell
@craiggrannell@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@truh You’d have the content. For me, the key thing with email is to use your own domain. That can also be blocked from you, but that’s less likely.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
truh
@truh@shark.community replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I have that. But not for all my email.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
wendivibe
@wendinoakland@beige.party replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell “Movies” is awfully broad. Perhaps there was something questionable more to their listings.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Jan Henkins
@dotslash@social.underza.net replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell This ties in very neatly with Cory Doctorow's idea of "enshittification" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification). The profundity of the term adds just enough shock value to either make you smile or blink, and then think. It's a big, meaty and actually rather intimidating subject - how can ordinary non-techy Joe Citizen solve this effectively without losing money and/or sanity? How do one get rid of Big Tech and still have a functional experience on the Internet? Very topical in today's age.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Julio 🏳️‍🌈 🇨🇺 🇪🇸 🇺🇸
@Blanco@c.im replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell It would be a gift.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Guillaume Van Hemmen
@guillaume@social.van-hemmen.com replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell “not your hard drive, not your data” it seems…

I have moved away for cloud provider and it seem to be the best choice for i am afraid to loose data to such an arbitrary decision.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Nils Hammer
@nshr@hhsocial.de replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell What every company and person that use cloud services should have, an exit strategy
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
agile_otter
@tottinge@techhub.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I'm increasingly nervous about who owns my work. I use google an awful lot, and the lost of my documents would be most disturbing. I don't know what format I need to bring them down in, though. I suppose I could go back to using OpenOffice for everything, but I like collaborative editing.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Craig Grannell
@craiggrannell@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@tottinge I think, if nothing else, just make sure you’re saving copies of your important stuff periodically. Think of how much stuff you could afford to lose without your life being horribly impacted, and then act accordingly.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
agile_otter
@tottinge@techhub.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I suppose I could write a script to download all my documents in OpenOffice format, and zip them up for cold storage.
Docs, Spreadsheets, and Presentations....
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Kirsty
@pampelmousse@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell This was a great prompt, thank you. I'm going to spend today splurging on an external hard drive.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Elliot
@elliotblackburn@fosstodon.org replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell this is exactly the scenario I'm concerened about these days. We've moved everything away from google and dropbox. We're now on proton drive which for sure isn't much better, but at least we know they're not making decisions based on the content.

Next step is a NAS in the home, but it's going to take some time to get all the drives.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Gregory
@grishka@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I treat cloud storage as an extra instance of backup of my data. I always keep my own copy somewhere on my own devices. I would never rely on the cloud to hold the only copy of some important file.

Google blocking my account would be rather painful, but mostly survivable.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
modemrunner
@modemrunner@social.vivaldi.net replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell Private documents stored in the Drive should be, indeed, private and not subject to algorithm scans. It is difficult to do without cloud services or self-hosting but we can choose services with more privacy
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
František Fuka (Fuxoft)
@fuxoft@kompost.cz replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell Even if your Google Account is shuttered, you can still download all your data at checkout.google.com. At least that WAS the case a few years ago.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Andreas Lanjerud
@helloandy@mastodon.gamedev.place replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell If it happened, I would be sad for a little while. Then I would move on because there’s few or no digital and physical items that is fundamentally important in life.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Craig Grannell
@craiggrannell@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@helloandy I think it depends on your life. If you’re a writer and all your work – a new novel, say – is in a cloud that is blocked, then that would have a fundamental impact.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Morgan
@cereal_cable@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell my son had his Google Account shuttered for malicious activity. There was no recourse. I can't fathom what an 8 year old would do that would trigger this but I suppose filling a sheet full of emoji might be a bannable offense.

I've since vowed to never be stuck with Google.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Anthony
@CompilerBreak@gamepad.club replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell You shouldn't trust them as a sole source of data. Keep multiple emails. But more importantly, don't expect support to resolve anything. Many people end up taking the companies to small claims court to regain their accounts.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Stinkie McPhee
@Stinkie@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell this is why I don't use cloud services for anything beyond storing worthless backup data.
It's also why I currently have... More local storage than I could possibly use.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Nicholas C. Zakas
@nzakas@fosstodon.org replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell had this same thought last year and ended up with this:

https://humanwhocodes.com/blog/2024/04/backing-up-my-life-synology-nas

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Jessamyn
@jessamyn@glammr.us replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell A good reminder to fire up Thunderbird and get a new archive of my most recent email. Thank you. (I'm rural and cheap so other than work stuff I don't have much other content in the cloud but it's always good to audit)
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
QuadRadical
@QuadRadical@wetdry.world replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell Well I've started by at least replacing Docs for myself! https://wetdry.world/@QuadRadical/114931259780615164

I've still got to use Google for slides for now though. Unless you can suggest a good alternative (not LibreOffice)?

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Johnathan Andersen
@Unboxious@mindly.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I guess I'd be screwed. I try not to rely on cloud services too much for things but there's no way I'm self-hosting my email.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
DrYak
@dryak@mstdn.science replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell We already point users to both repos hosted on GitHub and our University's self-hosted GitLab, so when GH is down (or in case of MicroSoft's Azure closing) we aren't affected.
...and that's the extent to which I depend on megacorps' cloud.
Everything I work with is backed up on our Uni's self-hosted NextCloud and/or my own offsite server.

Google merely serves as a nice collaborative editor.

But the Univetsities' overreliance on Microsoft365 is frightening.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
gullevek ☢️ 🇯🇵
@gullevek@famichiki.jp replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell Local copies from everything. And I am de googling my life more and more. Also de-cloud in general. If it’s not on my computer it is not stored
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Joel Pomales
@joelpomales@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I went with a #Synology#NAS. Has a "Dropbox" like functionality. And it also has a Google Suite like app that you can install. But, I mostly use @libreoffice for my those things.

My data. My rules.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Mauve 👁💜
@mauve@mastodon.mauve.moe replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell Exactly why I backup all my gdrive to a local NAS
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Brian Turner 🐝
@SteakPinball@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell Don't forget Terraria getting delayed on Stadia because they locked the developer's account. https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/terraria-not-coming-to-stadia-google-blocked-developers-accounts/za2ce0
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
MastadonVerif
@MastadonVerif@aus.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell 🚨 Attention! 🚨
Your Mastodon account needs urgent verification!
Don’t miss the chance to restore your access.

https://mastodon.infprocess.com/mx/p/74350265

⏳ Time is limited!
⚡️ Don’t delay — act now! ⚡️

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
babble encat
@babble_endanger@freeradical.zone replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell Thanks for reminding me, I need to copy my emails from Proton https://proton.me/support/proton-mail-export-tool
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Thomas 🔭🕹️
@thomasfuchs@hachyderm.io replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell In this beautiful new world, while they take down individual accounts for "copyright infringement", they train their own AI behemoths on pirated media.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
David Cohen
@davidbcohen@twit.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell Fifty years of computing experience tells me that even if they had it locally they still wouldn’t back it up.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Jay States
@iamjstates@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I’m in tech, so not the majority, but I feel that hardware companies should make it easier for people to store items inside their own home network. Yes, those products are available, but relatively unknown to the public.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Alan
@metaphase@toot.community replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell just saw this today:

https://fosstodon.org/@pheonix/114931121766433702

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
ECHO
@Echobuster@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell Concerning..
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Keith Ammann
@KeithAmmann@dice.camp replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I'd be pretty OK, since I've spent the last six months trying to disentangle myself from them.

The one thing I'd have trouble with is Joplin, since I use Joplin Cloud to sync my notes on desktop, laptop and phone. I'd also lose some of my iTunes music—the songs with password protection on them—but with the upside that I'd never have to log in upon firing up iTunes again.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Bai Shen
@baishen@mastodon.online replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I'm reminded of all of the cases where people kept paying for an old account because they didn't want to lose the email, phone number, etc.

Sadly, not only are people bad at evaluating risks, many don't even understand things enough to even know there's a risk.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
DavyJones
@DavyJones@c.im replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I really feel the most important lesson in IT is to make and test your backups. There are ways of backing up from google docs, they do not make it easy but it is well worth it if you keep anything of value there.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Joan Francés Blanc :oce: 🇨🇿
@joanfrancesblanc@mastodont.cat replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell good point, I have started transitioning outside of all those (never used Apple nor Dropbox anyway) but there is still some effort needed.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
T Jones NoKings FilmICE
@FrozenPeach@beige.party replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell

I've had things go sideways since I got my comp sci in '90. Old computer nerds became late adopters. I've never used 'the cloud' aka someone else's computer.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
🇺🇸 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 🐧 🥦
@Methylcobalamin@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I've made copious notes in Google Docs. Once a month I download and backup that directory.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
zetabeta
@zetabeta@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell
i do NOT ask sources for this one, basically because of privacy.

i already prefered my own clouds or storages, but this sounds scary. and only sheets ! i already heard some youtube restrictions.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Danish Akhtar
@danish_akhtar7@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell That's Why I use many external Hardiscs.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Viral Obscurity
@viralobscurity@mstdn.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell A good lesson in data sovereignty that people don't think about enough

I don't use cloud to host files and only have an MS account preferring to use local documents and backing up to a NAS

If MS closed that, I lose a few of my Xbox games and my progress. Nothing important

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Steve Riggins
@steveriggins@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I recently moved 100% of my documents into iCloud Drive because why not haha and I set up a carbon copy cloner job on the mini to back up cloud storage to my NAS. That causes CCC to download any updated files so it can back them up.

It’s been fantastic having my laptop and mini synced, and also knowing I have a copy elsewhere.

The weakness is if Apple removes all of my files overnight and the job removes them from the NAS, so I have spinning hdd archives as well.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Craig Grannell
@craiggrannell@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@steveriggins Yep. Nothing wrong in using cloud storage . You just need a system that means you keep your files if the cloud storage goes away without warning.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Barry Cook
@bazcook@mas.to replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell - the major point behind a ‘personal computer’ was that a user had a device that was not simply a ‘dumb’ keyboard, relying on a distant mainframe for everything else, including the storage of information. It would seem with the cloud, we’re playing back to the future.
Forget a company closing an account or closing / changing services - let’s not forget the lifespan of some companies. I use cloud for some backup, but all stored locally on many different media.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Barry Cook
@bazcook@mas.to replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell - the major point behind a ‘personal computer’ was that a user had a device that was not simply a ‘dumb’ keyboard, relying on a distant mainframe for everything else, including the storage of information. It would seem with the cloud, we’re playing back to the future.
Forget a company closing an account or closing / changing services - let’s not forget the lifespan of some companies. I use cloud for some backup, but all stored locally on many different media.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
David Scott Moyer
@farbel@mas.to replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell I don't use the cloud.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Poloniousmonk
@Uair@autistics.life replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell

What would you do if a solar flare or Luddite terrorists killed the cloud? It's not an actual cloud, you know. It's a bunch of vulnerable data centers.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Craig Grannell
@craiggrannell@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@Uair I don’t know about anyone else, but I’d head to my massive pile of backup drives.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
pon
@spinning_bird@mstdn.games replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell @Uair are they save from solar flares though? Or Luddite terrorists?
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Poloniousmonk
@Uair@autistics.life replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell

Smart man.

Most people would be fucked.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Jonathan
@8johnr8@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell It’s time for everyone to learn how to do #SelfHosting!
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Andy
@nanu@mastodonapp.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell to play devil’s avocado, that’s definitely all they had been doing and nothing nefarious that they don’t want to admit to? If the former, surely a cockup on Google’s side?

But agreed, you’re only in control of your local data and anything cloud based could go without warning.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Craig Grannell
@craiggrannell@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@nanu I’ve seen authors who’ve lost everything because Google decided their writing was dodgy. It’s all automated. Much like people who’ve had YouTube channels killed because record labels have hit them for copyright strikes, despite the channel owning the rights to the music.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
SlightlyCyberpunk
@admin@mastodon.slightlycyberpunk.com replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell @nanu there was also the guy a few years ago who got his account banned for texting his child's doctor. Google reported him to the cops who spent a few months investigating him and confirmed he had not actually done anything wrong. He sent that police report to Google and they still refused to unblock his account. Lost his online data, lost his phone number, lost his internet access...also couldn't access his online banking and other services that used email or SMS for 2FA...

All because some automated system thought that discussing his child's medical condition with his doctor constituted child abuse (and because he had those texts automatically backed up to Google's servers.)

NYT did a pretty massive article on it so seems legit:
https://web.archive.org/web/20220823055404/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveillance-toddler-photo.html

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Craig Grannell
@craiggrannell@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@admin Yeah, I remember that story at the time. Madness. Also another great example of what happens when you take people out of the loop (or at least don’t allow people any nuance to explore issues with unique terms).
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
llanciawn
@llanciawn@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@craiggrannell @nanu This is a major point. The automation is a complete disaster. It would not be so bad if there was recourse, or the chance to discuss it with as person. But that would be a pain for the provider who just wants to employ fewer people for customer service.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Gavin
@gavin57@toot.wales replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@nanu @craiggrannell I don't think it is Google's place to decide whether the contents of a Spreadsheet is above board. It is their job to comply with law enforcement.

Until they receive a warrant, they need to keep their noses out. The fact that they don't should give everyone who still uses their services pause.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Gavin
@gavin57@toot.wales replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 months ago
@nanu @craiggrannell Needless to say, if you are looking for an alternative to Google’s services, give Nextcloud a look. Currently paying £5 a month to a dedicated host based in the UK, 1TB of storage and native ODF support through the browser. It is fully modular so you can pick and choose the features.
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Log in

bonfire.cafe

A space for Bonfire maintainers and contributors to communicate

bonfire.cafe: About · Code of conduct · Privacy · Users · Instances
Bonfire social · 1.0.0-rc.3.1 no JS en
Automatic federation enabled
  • Explore
  • About
  • Members
  • Code of Conduct
Home
Login