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@stefan@stefanbohacek.online · 3 hours ago

@pahoittelemme Kind of a moot point. Bluesky has people. Twitter has people. So why do so few people want to be here?

You can't just attribute this to bad UX. People on Bluesky complain about not being able to edit posts, create private accounts, blocks being public, all kinds of UX problems.

It's not even an issue of having to pick a server, look at all the people who figured out that part, and now they're gone.

https://mastodon-analytics.com

Some will say that fediverse is "too complicated", but we've seen people install VPNs to get around TikTok bans and age restrictions, and now they're talking about migrating between PDSes and AppViews on Bluesky.

It's the culture here.

@mick@cosocial.ca replied · 2 hours ago

@stefan serious question - to what degree can Blacksky operate if they are completely severed from Bluesky?

I.e. If Bluesky LLC cuts off access to Bluesky LLC operated infrastructure, does Blacksky still exist?

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 2 hours ago

@mick Last time I checked on this, they had an AppView running on a staging server, which was the last remaining piece of their ATProto stack.

So, to answer your question, once they move this to production, they will be 100% Bluesky independent.

@anttipeltola@mastodon.world replied · 3 hours ago

My take is that internet standards should be authored by bodies like the IETF and the W3C. Not by techbros. That's why I'm here.

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 3 hours ago

@anttipeltola https://bsky.app/profile/moja.blue/post/3mdx5xcaia22c

https://bsky.app

@disorderlyf@todon.eu replied · 4 hours ago

@stefan mfrs will literally develop a whole-ass social networking stack for their specific community before they move to a fedi service. 🤦‍♀️

@mllsc@beige.party replied · 5 hours ago

@stefan interesting, I've been wanting to see who's on bluesky just cause of how much bigger the userbase is, but I've hesitated to create an account there knowing it might not last very long. Following bluesky users from mastodon seems clunky. Will be watching the rollout of these other ones though I am not Black or European

katherine montalto

@katherine_montalto@zirk.us replied · 4 hours ago

@mllsc @stefan there is also north sky https://bsky.app/profile/transrights.northsky.social

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 4 hours ago

@katherine_montalto Yeah, the Atmosphere is definitely growing.

katherine montalto

@katherine_montalto@zirk.us replied · 4 hours ago

@stefan @mllsc I'm still just on the regular space over there but keeping my eye on all the alt spaces that are popping up and asking people who are on those spaces what they are like and how it was moving.

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 5 hours ago

@mllsc I'm not sure, but Blacksky might also be open to allies? Or maybe they host a separate PDS for those?

@jdp23 Do you happen to know?

@jdp23@neuromatch.social replied · 3 hours ago

Yes, Blacksky does indeed host PDSs that are open to everyone! You can sign up there for a new account, or migrate an existing account. https://docs.blacksky.community/migrating-to-blacksky-pds-complete-guide has the details.

@incentive@mastodon.circlewithadot.net replied · 5 hours ago

@stefan What did I miss with the Bluesky stuff? I'm seeing a lot of people close their bridge from Masto->Bsky down. Is it because bsky.social hosts ICE and such?

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 5 hours ago

@incentive Yeah, that happened after Bluesky verified ICE.

But that's a bit shortsighted, because you'd be closing off yourself from Blacksky, and soon other independent ATProto/Atmosphere communities.

@incentive@mastodon.circlewithadot.net replied · 5 hours ago

@stefan I think it's possibly shortsighted too but I'm not going to judge anyone for feeling convicted and choosing that as their form of action.

Grateful for your post though, did not know about Blacksky until today. Something to read up on over lunch. 🤝

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 5 hours ago

@incentive Oh no, not judging either, I just wonder if those who disabled the bridge realize this, might not have taken that into account.

Some might know and not care, I guess.

@incentive@mastodon.circlewithadot.net replied · 5 hours ago

@stefan For clarity did not mean to indicate you were judging anyone 🙏

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 5 hours ago

@incentive No worries, didn't think that, just clarifying for others!

Roni Rolle Laukkarinen

@rolle@mementomori.social replied · 5 hours ago

@stefan I like that things are becoming more federated. What makes me a bit sad is that we still can't all be online using the same protocol. But then again, that's nothing new, people have always been spread across different platforms anyway, Tumblr, Facebook, Twitter... without being able to communicate with each other.

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 5 hours ago

@rolle I guess if the fediverse keeps pushing people away, and ATProto gains wide enough adoption, and it becomes easy to run your whole stack, I might just look into that.

Until then, I'll have to stick with the fediverse, as that's the only truly grassroots option.

Lentävä Kalakukko

@pahoittelemme@mastodontti.fi replied · 4 hours ago

I just don't get the whole "fediverse pushing people away" angle, at all. Care to elaborate?

There are millions of users and thousands of servers on the fediverse. All kinds of people, from all over the world. It's not one homogenous mass "pushing people away" or "being unwelcoming". You just couldn't make that happen even if you tried.

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 4 hours ago

@pahoittelemme Are you thinking of millions of inactive users?

https://fedidb.com

https://mastodon-analytics.com

The hostility, particularly towards Black people has been well documented.

https://logicmag.io/policy/blackness-in-the-fediverse-a-conversation-with-marcia-x/

https://privacy.thenexus.today/start-making-the-fediverse-less-toxic/

Every few days there is a woman talking about the sexism on here. Seems really hard to miss this stuff.

The Nexus Of Privacy

5 things white people can do to start making the fediverse less toxic for Black people

Anti-Blackness is a long-term problem in the fediverse. Now's a good time to start changing that.

Logic(s) Magazine

Blackness in the Fediverse: A Conversation with Marcia X

A conversation about the #PlayVicious Mastodon instance.

Spiritual Lesbian

@eberfreitas@panelinha.club replied · 2 hours ago

@stefan this is super serious. A question I keep thinking is if people don't face those things on BlueSky and other networks? @pahoittelemme @rolle

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 2 hours ago

@eberfreitas I think it's a combination of a more relaxed audience on there, and tools for managing harassment, like reply controls.

I'm sure there's plenty of harassment on there, just like there has been on Twitter. But at least you can lock your replies when things get out of hand, and move on.

@pahoittelemme @rolle

Lentävä Kalakukko

@pahoittelemme@mastodontti.fi replied · 4 hours ago

We're probably speaking past each other.

The fediverse still isn't some homogenous blob where what you said applies universally. It's all down to individual instances and their moderators.

Granted, the largest instances probably have the worst time dealing with moderation.

But I have a hard time seeing @rolle walk past bad behaviour on the instance he runs, ditto for the org that runs my instance.

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 4 hours ago

@pahoittelemme A lot of the problematic behavior is insidious, though.

Asking Black people to prove there is racism. Asking women to "just block" every single individual harasser. Telling people to "just" stop using Big Tech products. To add alt text. Not acknowledging some of the good things they're already doing and demanding perfection. Tone policing. Demanding very specific use of CWs.

All of these people are just trying to be helpful, right? Not really breaking any "rules".

1+ more replies (not shown)

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 5 hours ago

On the other hand, apparently Bluesky suspended dril?

Fedi admins, get ready!

https://bsky.app/profile/stefanheck.bsky.social/post/3me2a4lwk6s2x

https://bsky.app/profile/samio.bsky.social/post/3me2aojkzg22h

@neuralgraffiti@sfba.social replied · 4 hours ago

@stefan Sadly(?), dril is already back.
https://bsky.app/profile/dril.bsky.social/post/3me2e46t6xc2w

https://bsky.app

Jared White (ResistanceNet ✊)

@jaredwhite@indieweb.social replied · 5 hours ago

@stefan apparently their profile is back up again.

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 5 hours ago

@jaredwhite Yeah, a "mod error", somehow. Fair enough, I guess.

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 5 hours ago

And I know, some of you don't care, you want to keep the fediverse toxic and unwelcoming, I guess that's fine. It's just a shame.

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 2 hours ago

And for the "I'm just trying to be genuinely helpful" crowd:

https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan/116008392469985653

https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan/113623004004461223

@cmthiede@social.vivaldi.net replied · 5 hours ago

@stefan Everyone's version of toxic and unwelcoming seems to be different, so they join tribes where they can be toxic and unwelcoming to anyone they view as toxic and unwelcoming. One would wish everyone could just get along, but history seems to point to that being a chapter yet to be written.

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online replied · 5 hours ago

Sources:

Blacksky: https://bsky.app/profile/rude1.blacksky.team/post/3mcozwdhjos2b

Eurosky: https://bsky.app/profile/sherif.eurosky.social/post/3mdzsno2cds2f

https://bsky.app

https://bsky.app

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