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David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)
David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)
@david_chisnall@infosec.exchange  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

I recently saw a post with a meme that had two skulls, one saying ‘yes, but that wasn’t real socialism’. The implicit argument was that socialism is often used as an excuse and ends up with totalitarian regimes that kill a load of people.

One thing struck me about that: there’s no right-wing equivalent. People on the left point at Stalin and Mao and say that they were people who used left-wing ideals to build authoritarian states and ended up killing a load of people. They weren’t real communists. But, at the same time, people on the right wear ‘Hitler was right’ t-shirts. There’s no claim that Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, and so on were not real embodiments of their ideals.

Both extremes have given rise to dictators who have committed atrocities, but the ones on the left have been roundly disavowed by the movements that they rode to power. Falling to authoritarianism is seen as a failure by the left, but as success by the right.

So I saw this meme as a pretty strong endorsement of the left. Probably not how it was intended.

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Em & future cats 🇺🇦🐈🏳️‍🌈
Em & future cats 🇺🇦🐈🏳️‍🌈
@em_and_future_cats@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@david_chisnall Thank you for your explanation! 😹 This sort of thing has bothered my brain for many a year and, what you have said just now, makes more sense to me 😹
… now to figure out how I can explain it to friends/family when they say things that seem very uninformed 😹

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m4iler the Saboteur :debian: :t_blink:
m4iler the Saboteur :debian: :t_blink:
@m4iler@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@david_chisnall The problem with socialism/communism (the 1948-1989 era) was that even during that era, it was customary to disavow. It was a tactic used numerous times over the years, in all spheres of life.

Retroactive deletion has become the most useful tool to control the masses. "I never said that" or "This was never the case" are prevalent in politics today, as they were back then.

I am biased, since I hate communists with a passion and believe they were the worst scourge to happen to my country in the last 70 years. However, when you said "authoritarianism is a failure for the left, but a success for the right," I see your point: Socialists want to live in a country where people help each other regardless of ingroup/outgroup motivations. Right-wing socialism seems to have put in an us vs them mentality. It does what it says on the tin, the left-wing inevitably falls onto someone unscrupulous enough to abuse the system and rise up, which seems to rub left-wingers the wrong way.

Dunno if I'm making any sense 😂

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Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶  #FBPE
Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE
@TimWardCam@c.im replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@david_chisnall Sound to me like you're saying that the right wing extremists are more honest than the left wing extremists. The gammons are not pretending that the current worldwide gammon movement (MAGA, #brexshit, ect ect) has any objectives other than fucking up the lives of people they hate.

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Je ne suis pas goth
Je ne suis pas goth
@jenesuispasgoth@pouet.chapril.org replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@TimWardCam

I'd like to know what you consider to be "extremist" in this case.

Because my understanding is the ultimate goal of communism isn't a central state, for instance, but the end of the state. Communists think it must go through a strong state first, which will impose some "good rules" for the people, then the state can be abolished; anarchists tend to think that can only lead to corruption, and no state should exist, full stop.

These are revolutionary stances.

@david_chisnall

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