@ben DeltaChat and #Conversations_im are significantly closer aligned in ideology than Signal and Conversations.
When it comes to protocol design and governance I still have a favorite though.
@daniel What would you suggest as an alternative (not a facetious question - I'm genuinely curious)?
@ApostateEnglishman I'm trying to phrase my statements in a way in which they don't sound like an advert, but I'm developing and Android instant messaging client called #Conversations_im which uses a federated instant messaging network called Jabber or XMPP.
RE: https://social.tchncs.de/@restless/115912656588056648
Wenn wir das mit der digitalen Unabhängigkeit ernst meinen ist #Signal einfach nur eine Ablenkung.
#Quicksy hingegen ist ein wirklicher Schritt in die richtige Richtung. Quicksy ist so konzipiert, dass man darüber hinaus wächst und ein nahtloser Übergang zu #Conversations_im möglich ist.
Quicksy ist die Einstiegsdroge für wirklich unabhängiges Instant Messaging mit #XMPP.
@fluttersh @S1m @dino there would be some default 'rewrite proxy' (like up.conversations.im in #Conversations_im for example). And then you would also have some default XMPP server that allows anonymous login but can only connect to said rewrite proxy. I guess one could also allow list certain extensions. But for the domain allow list we already have the building blocks in place. I guess technically the login server and the rewrite proxy could be the same domain even. That's just boring details.
@daniel @nicoco @debacle @greatsword @gajim @Monal I still think that XMPP should be used as a compatibility label. Ideally every XMPP software would have a label "XMPP compatible, CS 2022 Core-IM-Mobile" (CS for "Compliance Suite"), in the same way as we have device "USB compatible, USB-4".
It's not a problem to have different software and name, the important is that they work well together.
@Goffi @nicoco @debacle @greatsword @gajim @Monal Outside in the real world I usually just tell people that I work on #Conversations_im. The fact that it is compatible with clients from other vendors because they use a common standard only gets mentioned later.
XMPP by name is only mentioned multiple drinks in and it usually only comes up in the context of my work in XMPP Standards Foundation.
Nun wechselt der Besitzer. Das ist normal, Threema ist ja keine Wohltätigkeitsorganisation und muss die rund 60 Mitarbeitenden bezahlen können (eine Zahl, die angesichts der Komplexität des Produktes immer noch tief ist). Threema hat aber etwas, was viele andere Startups und Scaleups nicht haben: Ein solides und nachhaltiges Geschäftsmodell, bei dem Geschäfts- und Privacy-Interessen verknüpft sind.
@dbrgn Vorweg. Ich fand immer toll was Threema in Bezug auf Open Source gemacht hat. Das Fdroid repository. Den libwebrtc build den #Conversations_im auch benutzt.
Mit einem soliden Geschäftsmodel hätte man eventuell auch einfach so weiter machen können und auf natürliche Weise wachsen können.
Alternative IPO oder via SPAC an die Börse.
Persönlich wünsche ich dir aber natürlich viel Glück und hoffe, dass die allgemeinen Befürchtungen nicht wahr werden.
@ismondo @jules Monocles is based on a very outdated version of #Conversations_im and has major security issues that I fixed in Conversations months ago. I currently would not recommend using it.
I think #XMPP has a relatively clear and achievable path to drastically reduce the amount of metadata, but I’m increasingly worried that it is not going to move the needle in terms of adoption.
For 99.99% of people, the only relevant feature for an instant messenger is simply 'Are my friends using it?' The other 0.01% are equally divided between people who already use XMPP and don’t mind the metadata, and people who won’t use it anyway.
@daniel It would be great if #xmpp community was better represented in various social networks. For example, there's no #conversations_im account in mastodon.
@ag1km Well you found my profile. Hi. Welcome. I post a lot on under the hashtag #Conversations_im.
There is also @xmpp
As a community, we often ask ourselves how to attract more users to #XMPP. Yet the real tragedy is that people would rather build something entirely new (loosely based on email or #ActivityPub) than consider XMPP. Need end-to-end encryption by default? If compatibility with existing XMPP clients is a secondary concern, you can implement it in your own solution while still benefiting from our two decades of experience in instant messaging.
@daniel It would be great if #xmpp community was better represented in various social networks. For example, there's no #conversations_im account in mastodon.
@S1m I always wanted to add push support to #Conversations_im. I think a federated instant messenger is a natural fit because you get the decentralization and the connection for free. And adding it to the messenger is also what Google did with gtalk.
So I was very happy that I found #UnifiedPush as a quasi standard when I finally got around to implement it.
Thank you for your for work!
JoinJabber
and 3 others
boosted
I’m happy to announce the 12th annual Holiday season Conversations giveaway. 🎄☃️
The federated instant messaging client is now available for free on Google Play until New Year’s Eve. 🧨🎆
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays. Enjoy #39C3.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.siacs.conversations
#XMPP #Jabber #Conversations_im #DigitalSovereignty #Fediverse
Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:
boosted
I consider this a failure on our part but I don’t really know what to do about it. Most arguments against #XMPP don’t hold if you’re building from scratch anyway:
• #Conversations_im looks very outdated: OK, but you are developing your own clients anyway.
• XMPP doesn’t have an SDK: Neither does your #ActivityPub or email stack
• OMEMO is insecure and I would prefer #MLS: Yes, let’s work on that together and you’ll still benefit from XMPP’s 100+ solved IM problems.
I’m happy to announce the 12th annual Holiday season Conversations giveaway. 🎄☃️
The federated instant messaging client is now available for free on Google Play until New Year’s Eve. 🧨🎆
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays. Enjoy #39C3.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.siacs.conversations
#XMPP #Jabber #Conversations_im #DigitalSovereignty #Fediverse
If a friend bought the #39C3 ticket for you and sent the .pkpass file via #XMPP, those files are now properly identified in #Conversations_im and display with a nice icon instead of a generic unknown file icon.
„The features matter a lot less than the people who are using the platform. […]
It can sometimes be a bit misleading when you get a lot of ideas and feature requests in a community, and the conversations become, ‘We definitely need feature X to grow because that’s what’s stopping people from using the platform.‘ While that’s true in some cases, the sad reality is that any flaw can be overlooked as long as the people you want to reach are there.“
This feels true for #Conversations_im as well.